We aren't breaking a contract. there was a series of steps, with an exit ramp at each point. The 'bill' is the exit clause, no more, no less. I've seen AU$400m said, I've also seen 200m. What do you think it has as a fee?

There were multiple escape clauses and gates built into that contract. France will get the contracted exit fee and not a cent more, no matter how much grandstanding they do.

no contract had been signed for the build phase because no detailed design had been submitted. I am hearing on the rumor mill it will be 200mil for completeing the basic design work (they have already been paid for that) , and a break fee 400mill because they failed to submit a detailed design plus reasonable incurred expenses ie like if they had already bought steel, modifications done to facilites and any other reasonable expenses incurred

A lot of these additional payments could be up to the goodwill of the AUS governement, probably why NG group is saying nothing about this whole situation.

There's been plenty of press about US assistance with the Brit's. Not so much on the US helping the French develop their nuclear submarines and other deterrent forces.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ration-threat/

Interesting articles ORAC but I can't see tyhem developoing a new sub in 9 years.... and

"Unlike the VIRGINIA Class Submarine, which was designed for multimission dominance in the littoral, SSN(X) will be designed for greater transit speed under increased stealth conditions in all ocean environments, and carry a larger inventory of weapons and diverse payloads. It will also be designed to retain multi-mission capability and sustained combat presence in denied waters, with a renewed priority in the anti- submarine warfare (ASW) mission against sophisticated threats in greater numbers. SSN(X) will be required to defend against threat UUVs [unmanned underwater vehicles], and coordinate with a larger contingent of off-hull vehicles, sensors, and friendly forces. (Budget-justification book for FY2022 Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation, Navy account, Vol. 3 [Budget Activity 5], p. 1301.) A Navy official stated in July 2021 that the Navy wants the SSN(X) to incorporate the speed and payload the Navy’s fast and heavily armed Seawolf (SSN-21) class SSN design, the acoustics (i.e., quietness) and sensors of the Virginia- class design, and the operational availability and service life of the Columbia-class design. (Justin Katz, “SSN(X) Will Be ‘Ultimate Apex Predator,’” Breaking Defense, July 21, 2021.) "

Doesn't sound cheap - in fact it sound very expensive. The Seawolf programme was canned because of the cost - and yet they want a Seawolf type sub again. I suspect its far more likely they'll get a lot more "Virginias" - if there a shortage stopping an ongoing programme and starting a new one isn't a great idea

It would seem the timescale is deliberate to enable the Columbia design team to transition directly to the detail design of the SSNX, then the construction crews to start moving directly from the Columbia class in the same manner in order to preserve experience.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/20...d-repair-work/

is the Columbia fully designed? The first boat is still building - and that's when the issues often turn up, no?

So the SSN(X) is more about keeping designers busy - I suspect when the estimates come in they'll just move them on to the next design and buy more, but slightly updated, Virginias - that's more or less what has happened to the Arleigh Burke class

I would still not be surprised if both a Virginia and an Astute end up being based down under for a while with a degree of mixed crewing from the Collins class. This would give them a hands on feel for the pros and cons of each while a couple of Collins are in for life extension. The reactor trained crews would remain USN/RN as would the CO and senior team.

Once again, if it makes them happy down under, why not ? They seem to get some comfort in being under US supervision, good for them.
Let them make war against unmasked people as today on Melbourne beaches, that's what they are good at.

In the meantime, who needs Oz ? (apart from getting the legal compensation for breaking the contract, which will not be cheap)

Today announcement (Sep 28th) :

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f7bd9fc9f1.png

Built 100 % in France. At least the customer doesn't pretend this time he can do the job at home.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....574aa85b64.png

That's not my perception. Get informed, read something else than Aussie newpsapers

Who AUKUS could be something massive a complete nothing, if the british carrier is being escorted by an astute, they have said 2 of the escorts will be staying in the area after the carrier, that could be the first one.

Your perception is not fact. I have found only one press release from them issued on the 17th

Is there another press release issue by them or a board member I have missed ?

Aaaand the latest bloviating expert to weigh in - one Malcolm Bligh Turnbull AC - renowned crippler of the National Broadband Network.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/aust...28-p58vf2.html
Demonstrating as much knowledge about nuclear submarines as he has about telecommunications.

As the principal author of the wobbly deal to build French nuclear subs with diesel engines, I don’t think I’d be looking to Turnbull for a balanced assessment of AUKUS.

I once had great hopes of Turnbull as PM, but he proved a hopeless ditherer when in office and a spiteful wrecker since.

All commonsense suggestions.

Wow.
May I ask what type?

Whatever deal is struck, let's hope it includes the reactor decommissioning costs after their useful lives are over.

"This whole debate could be simplified very easily and quickly.

1. Accept the fact Virginia Class subs will NOT be built in South Australia. Minor fit-out and routine maintenance yes, build no.
2. Take the Virginia as is , no modifications.
3. Get in the queue of the production line ASAP.
4.Start organising training , exchange programs etc.on leased boats ASAP."

Now there's the right approach - but will any politico be willing to say Item #1?

Don't worry, you will get the bill. I have official statements, but they are in French, which you probably don't master.

So after Kevin Rudd, it seems now Malcolm Turnbull considers that France has been deliberately and unelegantly betrayed.
That makes two ex-Australian PM against one - but for some reasons, it seems commentators here do prefer the N° 3, Scott Morrison (why ? no idea - that's internal Aussie politics, and I don't really care)

Anyway, I'm happy to read here that after believing that they could build at least parts of submarines, they came down under to acknowledge that no, they are absolutely unable of that. So next time think twice before pretending to play with the big boys.

No. However, my son works in SA and the first thing he asked was "What does it mean for jobs here"? So, they might not want to say it, but the question was being asked from the first day.

". However, my son works in SA and the first thing he asked was "What does it mean for jobs here"? "

I suspect there'll be plenty of jobs - just maintenance and repair will cost you a lot (but all going to Australian taxpayers of course)

Should be a lot of work on the Type 26 frigates over the same period and more suited to the yard and the local supply chain