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-   -   E-3D Final Sortie (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/641956-e-3d-final-sortie.html)

Gordon Brown 4th Aug 2021 18:49

E-3D Final Sortie
 
Local news reporting the final E-3D flight at RAF Waddington, and no replacement until 2023. A big capability gap.

But hey, let's obsess about women's hair on the military aircrew forum.

downsizer 4th Aug 2021 19:00


Originally Posted by Gordon Brown (Post 11089784)
on the military aircrew forum.

Mate - do you have a link to that forum??? This is for history and nostalgia...! ;)

Ninthace 4th Aug 2021 19:03


Originally Posted by Gordon Brown (Post 11089784)
Local news reporting the final E-3D flight at RAF Waddington, and no replacement until 2023. A big capability gap.

But hey, let's obsess about women's hair on the military aircrew forum.

Link here
https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/08/...final-mission/

Stuck On The Ground 4th Aug 2021 19:29


Originally Posted by downsizer (Post 11089787)
Mate - do you have a link to that forum??? This is for history and nostalgia...! ;)

Yes, cue the, "When I was on Vulcans at Waddington" posts.

Wensleydale 4th Aug 2021 19:47


Originally Posted by Gordon Brown (Post 11089784)
Local news reporting the final E-3D flight at RAF Waddington, and no replacement until 2023. A big capability gap.

But hey, let's obsess about women's hair on the military aircrew forum.


Although the Sentry is assigned to the NATO AEW&C Force and tasked by them. The RAF own the aircraft and the crews, but have little input into their use unless formally requested for National Tasking. In the meantime, the NATO Component of the AEW&C Force with E-3As at Geilenkirchen is more than capable of taking up the slack in tasking until the arrival of Wedgetail which will also be NATO assigned. No capability gap at all.

SASless 4th Aug 2021 19:53

Bummer being a part of a Joint Force sometimes. isn't it?

But...at other times it is a blessing.

The RAF did without ASW capability until the P-8's started arriving....perhaps this waiting period shall not be as. long.

Stuck On The Ground 4th Aug 2021 20:01


Originally Posted by Wensleydale (Post 11089805)
Although the Sentry is assigned to the NATO AEW&C Force and tasked by them. The RAF own the aircraft and the crews, but have little input into their use unless formally requested for National Tasking. In the meantime, the NATO Component of the AEW&C Force with E-3As at Geilenkirchen is more than capable of taking up the slack in tasking until the arrival of Wedgetail which will also be NATO assigned. No capability gap at all.

Why buy Wedgetail then? Genuine question.

Wensleydale 4th Aug 2021 20:35


Originally Posted by Stuck On The Ground (Post 11089811)
Why buy Wedgetail then? Genuine question.

It is a long historical answer. Back in the 1970s, when the NATO AEW Force was mooted, the force was to consist of all the NATO Nations contributing crews (including UK) with 24 E-3A aircraft based in the UK (base not decided but probably Fairford or Brize). However, discussions/arguements about costings/posts etc led to a delay in the signing of the agreement, and the UK stated that if not signatures were forthcoming then the UK would pull out of the multinational crews and go its own way (we were scrapping the RN Carriers and needed AEW to replace the Shackletons which were a stop gap until modern AEW arrived). The Germans realised that if the UK pulled out then they would get the airbase and associated monies, and so didn't sign. The UK pulled out and a few months later the rest of NATO signed up as well. The UK was to get six E-3A aircraft as the UK Component of the AEW Force and the remaining nations bought 18 E-3As and based them at Geilenkirchen. The UK aircraft would be NATO assigned and tasked as part of the Force..

Then came the politics in the UK. The 1970s was a time of left wing agitation with the Unions trying to run the Country: as a result, the MOD put a tender out for a UK Company to supply the AEW Aircraft for the UK Component rather than buying Boeing (the Gov't knowing that none of the UK companies had any proposals acceptable). Indeed, GEC/Marconi took the funds allocated for the production of the UK AEW Aircraft and rolled out their Comet testbed for the Tornado F2 AI Radar (which didn't work either). Just before the decision was made however(with everyone knowing that we would buy the E-3A), Ted Heath called a snap General Election which he lost. With a weak union dominated Labour Government in power, they were forced to buy British and not American and so the Nimrod AEW3 was born. GEC/Marconi gulped: they didn't have a product but never mind because they were offered a Cost Plus contract: all of the development costs plus profit for the company. In reality, the longer it took to develop the aircraft then the more money the company made.

Long story cut short. We eventually bought the E-3D but was still contractually obliged to be part of the NATO AEW Force. NATO threw a great deal of money at data-link infrastructure for Europe, and so the UK benefited from the deal. We are still contractually obliged to be part of the NAEW Force and so we will buy Wedgetail.

Mr N Nimrod 4th Aug 2021 23:32


Originally Posted by Wensleydale (Post 11089819)
It is a long historical answer. Back in the 1970s, when the NATO AEW Force was mooted, the force was to consist of all the NATO Nations contributing crews (including UK) with 24 E-3A aircraft based in the UK (base not decided but probably Fairford or Brize). However, discussions/arguements about costings/posts etc led to a delay in the signing of the agreement, and the UK stated that if not signatures were forthcoming then the UK would pull out of the multinational crews and go its own way (we were scrapping the RN Carriers and needed AEW to replace the Shackletons which were a stop gap until modern AEW arrived). The Germans realised that if the UK pulled out then they would get the airbase and associated monies, and so didn't sign. The UK pulled out and a few months later the rest of NATO signed up as well. The UK was to get six E-3A aircraft as the UK Component of the AEW Force and the remaining nations bought 18 E-3As and based them at Geilenkirchen. The UK aircraft would be NATO assigned and tasked as part of the Force..

Then came the politics in the UK. The 1970s was a time of left wing agitation with the Unions trying to run the Country: as a result, the MOD put a tender out for a UK Company to supply the AEW Aircraft for the UK Component rather than buying Boeing (the Gov't knowing that none of the UK companies had any proposals acceptable). Indeed, GEC/Marconi took the funds allocated for the production of the UK AEW Aircraft and rolled out their Comet testbed for the Tornado F2 AI Radar (which didn't work either). Just before the decision was made however(with everyone knowing that we would buy the E-3A), Ted Heath called a snap General Election which he lost. With a weak union dominated Labour Government in power, they were forced to buy British and not American and so the Nimrod AEW3 was born. GEC/Marconi gulped: they didn't have a product but never mind because they were offered a Cost Plus contract: all of the development costs plus profit for the company. In reality, the longer it took to develop the aircraft then the more money the company made.

Long story cut short. We eventually bought the E-3D but was still contractually obliged to be part of the NATO AEW Force. NATO threw a great deal of money at data-link infrastructure for Europe, and so the UK benefited from the deal. We are still contractually obliged to be part of the NAEW Force and so we will buy Wedgetail.

i am sure that is part of the story…..

Toadstool 4th Aug 2021 23:41


Originally Posted by Gordon Brown (Post 11089784)
Local news reporting the final E-3D flight at RAF Waddington, and no replacement until 2023. A big capability gap.

But hey, let's obsess about women's hair on the military aircrew forum.

Capability gaps are the norm where one doesn’t have unlimited resources or money.

MR2 out of service. Seed corn until P8.
Nimrod R1 out of service. Co-manning until UK RJ.
E3-D out of service. Train on E-7 in Aus until UK wedge tail is ready.
Harrier out of service. Gap until F-35

NutLoose 5th Aug 2021 09:56


Originally Posted by Stuck On The Ground (Post 11089797)
Yes, cue the, "When I was on Vulcans at Waddington" posts.

Meanwhile to give folks something to do.....



https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/n...ington-5710415

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/07/...k-for-repairs/

Fortissimo 5th Aug 2021 11:44


Originally Posted by Wensleydale (Post 11089819)
We are still contractually obliged to be part of the NAEW Force and so we will buy Wedgetail.

Not quite. The UK made a commitment to provide a contribution in kind to NAEW, it is not a contract. We will be buying Wedgetail because the UK believes it needs a national capability for AEW&C, not because of any contract with NATO, even though the UK will remain engaged with the NAEW programme.

Aircraft would be withdrawn from NAEW for national tasking by notifying NATO, not by asking for permission. Canada, one of the original NAEW nations, gave notice and withdrew from the programme 3 or 4 years ago, which will have affected the industrial offset share arrangements.

sangiovese. 5th Aug 2021 11:49

Ill be forever grateful from having had the comfort of knowing I was working under a UK E3 controller many times over the Adriatic Iraq and Afghanistan. The best crews on a fabulous asset.

Out Of Trim 5th Aug 2021 12:49

Let’s hope we don’t need them to cover CSG21 in the South China Sea anytime soon! How much do we actually save by taking a capability gap for two years? Not a sensible decision in my opinion! 🤔

TBM-Legend 5th Aug 2021 13:57

The combat proven E-7 is a great asset and deployed to pretty much all exercises from the various Flags and Exercise Pitch Black.

Less Hair 5th Aug 2021 14:18

What will happen to those frames? Is NATO taking them or anybody else?

Just This Once... 5th Aug 2021 14:31

You mean the youngest fleet of E-3s that were brought to their airworthiness knees by an aggressively incompetent PT?

Presumably scrap value plus a few bits sold-off. The 'zero careful owners' moniker does not tend to bring in a flood of offers.

SWBKCB 5th Aug 2021 14:48

Flight report that one has been bought by the US Navy for $15m as an E-6 trainer


"The training flights expose mission aircraft to significant wear-and-tear and impact their readiness and availability,” notes PMA-271 programme manager Captain Adam Scott. “It’s a big win for the entire E-6 community,” he says of the E-3D purchase.

coughing corner 5th Aug 2021 16:39


Originally Posted by Wensleydale (Post 11089805)
In the meantime, the NATO Component of the AEW&C Force with E-3As at Geilenkirchen is more than capable of taking up the slack in tasking until the arrival of Wedgetail which will also be NATO assigned. No capability gap at all.


The only problem being the invoice for those services is in fact greater than the cost of retaining the UK fleet until original draw down date prior to the SDR. #awkward…

Still you’ll be able to watch the delivery flights when they go, does that count?

Wensleydale 5th Aug 2021 16:56


Originally Posted by coughing corner (Post 11090289)
The only problem being the invoice for those services is in fact greater than the cost of retaining the UK fleet until original draw down date prior to the SDR. #awkward…

Still you’ll be able to watch the delivery flights when they go, does that count?

There is no invoice. The E-3D was part of the NATO AEW Force - the rest of that Force at Geilenkirchen will cover it.


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