Lonewolf_50,

My quote is a Somali proverb - and associated with many papers regarding the US operations there - and of course “Blackhawk Down”.

But it seems apt to apply it to the entire region, in the circumstances….

It's worth pointing out that much of this discussion applies to other hot-spots - I'm thinking especially of the Yemen - another place its best to cross the street to avoid from a geo-political view.

I'd add parts of the Caucasus as well TBH

Salute!

Regardless of our pPrune ROE about poly-ticks, we military aviators have gone where ordered and done our jobs.

So the mods must change the ROE or allow we who have actually been shot at, shot up and shot down discuss and comment in peace.

Some of us have even atenced all the charm schools and published articles in various journals.

So the current poly-tick ROE must be revised if we wish to have relevant military discussions from our members that have been there, done that and are still able to comment. Ya think?

Gums sends..

Declining market Gums - the owners and the advertisers are only interested in Volume here

Plus of course the tax payers also should have a say don't you think?

Having travelled around Afghanistan (and other countries in the region) in the 70s and subsequently paid pretty close attention to it - I've got a small library on the subject - I'd like to think that not having been "shot at" isn't a bar to having an opinion here. I've seen my own judgements about likely outcomes confirmed often enough, starting with the appalling mis-judgements which led to support for the likes of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and the "foreign fighters" (aka Bin Laden's Saudi crew) at the inception of the insurgency against the Soviet occupation. I've heard and read enough appalling judgements uttered by those in command who have been shot at to not automatically endorse their opinions even though, in principle, I value their service. Ultimately the egregious faults of western engagement in the region originate with the political and administrative classes.
Long-term the only likely "solutions" to the problem of Afghanistan lie far in the future and require the decay of a primitive religion and, probably, the division of the country into some sort of regional federation of the various tribes. I'm not holding my breath on either count. Then there's Pakistan...

Salute!

Thank you, Skrid. And I wish to clarify....

When I use the term "shot at", it is also related to another expression "boots on the ground". and both expressions refer to folks that have actually been to the places we talk about, whether in peacetime or not.

My comrades that never served "in country", but flew from bases in Thailand did not see and feel what I did when at Bien Hoa and Pleiku. Nor did many ever fly with and help the Vee use the weapons of war we provided as I did.

The armchair warriors and experts that have never been "shot at" are far down my "respect" scale. And you do not truly understand the folks you are trying to help (or defeat) until you live, eat and breath with them for more than a few minutes at a cocktail party.

Gums sends...

100% with you on that, mate!

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...id-taliban-row

Pakistan Airlines suspends Afghanistan flights amid Taliban row

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has suspended flights to Kabul after what it called heavy-handed interference by Taliban authorities.

The suspension on Thursday took place as the Taliban government ordered the airline, the only international carrier operating regularly out of the Afghan capital, to cut ticket prices to the levels of before the fall of the Western-backed Afghan government in August.

“Our flights frequently faced undue delays because of the unprofessional attitude of the Kabul aviation authorities,” Abdullah Hafeez Khan, the PIA spokesman told the AFP news agency. “The route will remain suspended until “the situation becomes conducive,” he added…..

Earlier, the Taliban warned PIA and Afghan carrier Kam Air that their Afghan operations risked being blocked unless they agreed to cut prices that have spiralled out of the reach of most Afghans.

With most airlines no longer flying to Afghanistan, tickets for flights to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, have been selling for as much as $2,500 on PIA, according to travel agents in Kabul, compared with $120-$150 before.

The Afghan transport ministry said in a statement that prices on the route should “be adjusted to correspond with the conditions of a ticket before the victory of the Islamic Emirate” or the flights would be stopped…..

PIA, which runs chartered flights to Kabul rather than regular commercial services, said it had maintained the flights on humanitarian grounds and paid more than $400,000 as insurance premium, “which could only be possible if 300 passengers are available”, Khan said.

PIA said that ever since the new Taliban government was formed, its staff in Kabul had faced last-minute changes in regulations and flight permissions and intimidating behaviour from Taliban commanders…..

It said its country representative had been held at gunpoint for hours in one incident and was only freed after the Pakistan embassy in Kabul intervened.

Surprised no mention on here that the RAF are back evacuating people

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uations-resume

Or perhaps the wiser heads think our very own are at risk and regret that any such exposure should come ahead of their safety.

Find a mirror, take a look and think very hard about what you should do next.

"The Taliban government ordered the airline, the only international carrier operating regularly out of the Afghan capital, to cut ticket prices to the levels of before the fall of the Western-backed Afghan government in August."

You know, I can see their point...............

They’re not back in Afghanistan

This simply shows that the Taliban has no clue how the market operates nor any understanding that it’s own victory has altered the risk assessments for those who want to operate into Kabul. The instability will also affect the insurance premiums. Effectively ordering a foreign airline to operate at a loss just means there will be no traffic at all unless someone else subsidises it. Perhaps that was the aim.

You would have thought the Taliban would have subsidised the difference until market forces as in insurance premiums etc settle back down. But it seems they do not understand no one will fly routes at a loss for their benefit.

Salute!

ahem, Nut.....

"You would have thought the Taliban would have subsidised the difference until market forces..."

Beam me up! The last thing those religious zealots think about are "market forces" or most anything else except their view of a society that 99% of the rest of the world do not share. When another national airline has problems in the 'stan, there are economic and other considerations the Taliban do not value, and prolly won't for a long time.

Maybe we should have discussions over on the main forum if there are any members flying commercial planes into Kabul or Bagram or...

Gums sends...

They don't do irony in Fl?

Salute!

Great point, Ninth.....

We have a very "diverse" grope here in FLorida. We are ironic, bionic, sarconic, geriatric and many of us have touched the elephant or flown into the jaws of the doom pussy. Some have not returned. Look up the Khobar Tower truck bomb where we lost 19 of our neighbors here in the Eglin/Hurlburt complex.

Gums sends...

When serving in the Canadian Military I was at a reception for high level government people in 2008 . A senior Mandarin at Foreign Affairs was standing next to a very senior Canadian Military Officer. I asked both of them to make the linkage between the Canadian Armed Forces deployment to Afghanistan and the national security interests of Canada.

The response, unsurprisingly but very disappointing, was a master class in desembling with no clear answer to what should have been a very straight forward question

I am also old enough to be one of the last officers in the CAF to have a commissioning scroll signed by a Defence Minister who had medals awarded for service where Combat operations were taking place.

I see the EU is to pump 1 BILLION Euros in aid into Afghanistan. The US a furthur $64 million, all laudable efforts, don't get me wrong, but how can a country develop to a place where it can stand on its own two feet free from outside help, why would a country have an incentive to throw off killing each other and using more and more sophisticated weaponary if you keep pumping monies into the place and corruption is rife, as in life at some point you need to withdraw the teat and let the young fend for themselves no matter how hard that may be.


https://www.euronews.com/2021/10/13/...l-crisis-group

https://www.usaid.gov/news-informati...ce-afghanistan


and some of the waste so far, frightning reading..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...use/ar-AAPejgg

Skirdlov. Is your name Rory by any chance?