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Afghanistan: General David Petraeus raises prospect of Western troops returningGeneral David Petraeus, the US former commander of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, tells Sky News that "time will tell" whether the US and UK military will again have to be deployed.The ex-head of the NATO mission in Afghanistan has raised the prospect of Western forces having to return to following the country's "disastrous" takeover by the Taliban. General David Petraeus, the US former commander of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, told Sky News that "time will tell" whether the US and UK military will again have to be deployed. The Taliban's swift capture of Afghanistan, following the final pull-out of western troops, has been a "tragic, heartbreaking and quite disastrous outcome", Gen Petraeus said. The former CIA director said he understood there had been some "pretty significant warnings" by US military and intelligence officials about the extremist group's ability to retake control of the country prior to their dramatic capture. And Gen Petraeus also questioned US President Joe Biden's assertion that Afghan forces were "not willing to fight" to push back the Taliban's advance. Why on earth would anyone want to deploy alongside the US again, knowing fully well what happened this time in that the US pulled the rug out from under NATO's feet and left them hanging in the breeze with no other option but to leave as well. |
Not to mention the fact that we'd be fighting in urban areas - with the high casualty rates that creates..................
Arc |
I'm getting fed up with the likes of Tom Tugendhat and Rory Stewart making arguments like this...
which completely ignore the loss rate being suffered by Afghan forces and civilians: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f1e70e03a8.png and also ignore the incorrigible corruption of the former government, which was causing those selfsame forces to go unpaid and underfed, and was making local communities fed up with being shaken down for cash and food by those who were supposedly protecting them. For men who are praised for their supposed insight to Afghanistan and its problems, their case for the West to have stayed shows a remarkable naivety. It's also fair to say that Biden has completely misjudged his communications by blaming Afghan forces for cowardice, when he should have been blaming corrupt Afghan governance (which, together with Western failure to acknowledge it) is at the heart of the matter. |
Tom Tugendhat and Rory Stewart |
My current reading on Kindle ...
Also listed as https://www.wdl.org/en/item/17742/ "In 1851, Sir John William Kaye (1814–76) published a two-volume History of the War in Afghanistan. Presented here is the “revised and corrected” edition of the same work, published in three volumes in 1857‒58. " In those 'pre-woke days', he describes in plain words the duplicity and disloyalty of the Afghan tribal leaders, who changed sides opportunistically on a regular basis. I've only got as far as 1808, but much of what I've read resonates with the West's experiences in recent decades. One barbarous practice was the blinding of deposed rulers of the former Kingdom ... little wonder that President Ghani legged it to the UAE. :eek: |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11098418)
Both have mentioned the appalling losses, T Tugendhat in admonishing Biden in his superb speech and R Stewart on Question Time? the other night.
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Dept of State Air Wing Phrogs left behind
And in better news, former Corps Phrogs in use with DoS Air Wing as embassy support in-country have been abandoned....
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...HekIcFL-DIiVDM https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....aaf3c89c77.jpg |
Some small signs that the evacuation may be extended beyond the Kabul airport. Deutsche Welle:
German military sending helicopters to Kabul The German military is sending two special forces helicopters to Kabul to assist with evacuations, the Defense Ministry said, confirming a report by Der Spiegel. The choppers are specially designed for hostage rescues and can land in tightly packed cities. The German Bundeswehr plans on using the helicopters to airlift small groups out of the Kabul airport and other Taliban-controlled areas in Afghanistan, Der Spiegel reported. A German general later said that the helicopters will only be used in Kabul at the moment, not in other cities. German military aircraft have so far evacuated more than 1,600 people since Monday. German politicians have been calling for more evacuation flights, particularly in areas outside of Kabul. There have been growing calls in recent days from German politicians for evacuations to be carried out in other parts of the country. |
Edit - I'm deleting my comment on ops beyond the airport perimeter; it was merely reporting what was being speculated elsewhere by usually well-informed observers but on reflection I don't think it's wise to bring attention to such matters.
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Originally Posted by John Marsh
(Post 11098532)
Some small signs that the evacuation may be extended beyond the Kabul airport. Deutsche Welle:
I hope this can be implemented. I have no doubt that plans are being made for making helicopter airlifts safe and manageable. If the Bundeswehr can make it work, other forces will hopefully be able to join in. |
Bundeswehr KSK special forces with H-145M - extracting from within Kabul urban area only - not rest of country
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A few videos of German KSK H-145M
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No US flights out of Kabul now for 9 hours as Qatar chock-a-block.
Biden Admin scrambling for alternatives - Ramstein AB to be used for now. |
I see Germany managed to get the beer out.. which is rightly causing some muttering.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/-ger...staff-/2338307 |
Fuel's going to be an issue if they start doing lots of rotary ops. The heavies can come in with enough to get out again, but fuel will need to be flown in for the helicopters if they're to avoid yet another dependency on Taliban goodwill.
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Originally Posted by Easy Street
(Post 11098573)
Fuel's going to be an issue if they start doing lots of rotary ops. The heavies can come in with enough to get out again, but fuel will need to be flown in for the helicopters if they're to avoid yet another dependency on Taliban goodwill.
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09
(Post 11098562)
A few videos of German KSK H-145M
Kampfschwimmer - Kommando Spezialkräfte Marine - der Bundeswehr - YouTube Helicopter H 145 M beim Tag der Bundeswehr in Faßberg - YouTube https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4d1c22c10.jpeg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c04db1f8a.jpeg and close up at Airpower Zeltweg the following year https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ba0bc334f.jpeg Though Hand in heart tbh too small for the tasking …like it or not better off with NH90TTH or even CH-53G/GA/GS cheers |
Just when I think the US couldn't :mad: this up any worse, they go and prove me wrong:
Reportedly so are the Germans. British and French troops are going out into Kabul to rescue their citizens while the US sticks to the airport US officials are still telling American citizens they are 'on their own' to get to the Kabul airport. I've never been this embarrassed to be an American. It's as if this administration was trying to make Trump look good... |
To be perfectly honest I am surprised the Taliban are letting the evacuation happen at all, and now they are talking about bringing in helicopters and floating all about picking people up here and there as if it the situation is normal. I will be really surprised if they pull that one off. Yes it happened at the start but the Taliban were not in control then. I do hope I am wrong.
It also strikes me as crazy that one country is bringing in helicopters while another is destroying the assets they have on the ground before the evacuation is even complete, where is the logic in destroying the assets you have before the conclusion of your evacuation. … |
Originally Posted by chopper2004
(Post 11098595)
i have Seen their H145M LUH SOF at ILA Berlin 2018
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4d1c22c10.jpeg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c04db1f8a.jpeg and close up at Airpower Zeltweg the following year https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ba0bc334f.jpeg Though Hand in heart tbh too small for the tasking …like it or not better off with NH90TTH or even CH-53G/GA/GS cheers |
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