The FIMA became the FLA which became the FTA which became the A400M.

Since the C130J was an essential element in recent operations maybe the MOD will reconsider their decision on early retirement?

I'm sure that those involved will once again be able to explain the critical gap that the ac fills. If, as a world power the UK needs 3 different types of Tactical Aircraft to provide the capability required, and to keep our people safe, then so be it.

Maybe AM Daltons solution was TOO simple?

Thank you. I came in with the FLA TNA.

I doubt they will change their decision as this is obviously a financial, not an operational decision.
Whether it’s the withdraw from Afghanistan, the war in the Ukraine or the current need to withdraw UK nationals from the Sudan we need more, not less transport aircraft. As good as the C17 & Atlas are they can only be in place at once & are too big for some roles, hence apart from Belgium & Luxembourg every other Atlas operator operate smaller aircraft (C130, C235, C295) to supplement their Atlas fleet.

"I'm sure that those involved will once again be able to explain the critical gap that the ac fills."

and the treasury will say what are you willing to give up to pay for it? as A4 says above - the decision is financial not operational.

The Govt desperately need to balance the books - in fact they have to CUT even more to be able to cut taxes before the next election as they believe that 's the only thing that will keep them in power.

From the live updates on the BBC's website regarding the Sudan situation...

"10:08

RAF plane takes off north of Khartoum

A Royal Air Force plane has departed an airfield north of Sudan's capital Khartoum and is heading to the RAF Akrotiri military base in Cyprus, according to a plane tracking website, which BBC News has been monitoring

The flight landed in Sudan just before 09:00 BST and then departed just after 09:30.

The RAF aircraft is a Lockheed C-130J Hercules – a plane which can be used in airlift missions.

It is a military transport aircraft which can land on rough terrain and can hold around 100 people.

The plane is likely to be part of the UK’s attempts to evacuate its citizens out of Sudan. We will continue to monitor its movements and bring you updates."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65371585

Front page of the Times this morning. Evacuation from Sudan. Unless my recognition has died, a C-130, front and centre

A cynic might suggest that it’s better to use the type that you’re about to get rid of rather than risk the ones you’re keeping…

So the use of the C130J might not reflect any perceived value to the type.

According to the BBC the RAF dispatched both a Atlas & a C130, but what has happened between the decision to keep the C130 until 2035, the decision to order additional Atlas to replace the Hercules which has been receded & now?
Also, if we have another pandemic & the RAF are required to aid the civil authorities & provide medevac, now the 146 & C130 are gone the smallest available aircraft will be the Atlas.

FR24 Monitoring for a Living
 

1206 (A)

Tracking British flights to Sudan

Daniele Palumbo

BBC Investigative Journalist

BBC News has been tracking RAF flights in and out of Sudan this morning.

Using a plane-tracking website, we have been able to follow a C130 Hercules – a military transport which can carry up to 100 people – flying from an RAF airbase at Akrotiri in Cyprus to an airfield north of the Sudanese capital Khartoum.

So far, it has made two trips to Sudan and is on its way back to Akrotiri

We’ve also been monitoring flights from the UK to Akrotiri and have tracked a Royal Air Force KC2 :rolleyes: – a large military transport aircraft able to transport up to 291 people – which has landed in the last hour.

Other countries are using airports in Djibouti and Yemen to evacuate their citizens from Sudan and we’ve tracked Italian, Japanese and UN flights arriving and departing from these this morning.

MOD and Government too stupid/stubborn to either admit or realise they made a huge error. Further, it’s too late now. Once again, Sudan is proving that the C130 is an indispensable asset. However, the Operation will be no more than a final fling for the RAF C130. God help anyone that needs evacuating after this summer.

Just wondering how `Ascot Ops` are working out a `plot` to airlift 4000 refugees out of Sudan...Should use a bit of `hub and spoke tactical thinking` using the minimum of 3 Hercs/6-7 crews,round trips from KTM to AbuSimbel(EGYPT),refuel for `roundtrip`each time at A-S only,pax on ,engines running,off you go,4hrs ,round trip.2 round-trips/crew,until all collected...!
Pax at A-S can be loaded onto A400 to Cyprus if not used on the KTM ..or maybe even use a `Voyager`for that...!!
Should all be done in 4 days...
Alternatively ,suggest they take all the X-Channel immigrant dinghies from Dover,drop them in KTM WITH INSTRUCTIONS to sail `downriver` as far as they can`..See you in Port Said...

What was the big event that happened that caused all of the big promises of SDSR 2015 (retaining T1 Typhoons, C-130 OSD extended, E-3 OSD extended, Sentinel OSD extended, commitment to 138 F-35s, etc) to all be reversed as unaffordable just a few short years later? Clue, it wasn't Covid, Ukraine, or the 'energy crisis'.

The C-17 and A-400 fleets will also be occupied shuttling in ammo and other supplies to Poland and elsewhere for Ukraine, plus supporting all the tasks they’ve taken over from the C-130 fleet, so it’s plausible the availability of the aircraft was a factor in the choice.

When was the required size of the AT force last assessed?

When we ordered the A-400 the C-17 purchase wasn’t envisaged and the army and RAF were far larger than they now are - and that’s before the latest planned cuts. I have the seen the remarks about additional A-400s, is this defined in any of the latest reviews?

The Govt is trying to balance the books - huge errors have been made before, hence "capability gaps" (ie gambles that they are not needed) for AWACS, MPA, Harrier and before that Sea Harrier, Type 2400 SSK submarines, Invincible Class etc etc.

The problem the C130 has is not really the A400, its the fact that we have both the A400 and the C17 when we probably only need one of them (plus the C130).

I know I've said it before but bring back the Andover (or something similar sized)

Or the BAe / Avro/ HS 146?

The is single reference to additional A400s on page 32 of the Defence Equipment Plan 2022 to 2035
However, the simultaneously pubished NAO report The Equipment Plan 2022 to 2032 (HC907 29 November 2022) states under Capabilities not included in the 2022-2032 Plan - Part-funded additional purchases

However:


I assume Andy Netherwood had reliable source for the potential 6 additional A400s in his oral evidence to the HoC Defence Committee on 22 March 2023

Photocall flight today?

My RC flying field is near Thornbury (grey blob north of Patchway, where the aircraft track intercepts the Orange road) so was pleased to be able to watch This C4 fly around for a bit this afternoon - lovely day if a bit hazy.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b308179647.jpg