There go the expected cost savings....

That’s already where we are supposed to be now. Albeit the green army still aren’t getting anything from A400M in terms of Airborne Assault and resupply, or in-theatre airlift, so the C-130 stagged on with all that as well as having been chopped away in aircraft and crews and are stretched thin as a result. If A400M steps up in a few non-specialist areas then it *might* work if the scope of C-130 operations is narrowed by a lot.

Just wondering how the MOD will dispose of them..? Giveaways to the USAF,or other countries...?
`Parker`s Guide` to 2nd hand Herks `never raced,or rallied,kept in garage overnight,full Service history`, might suggest the they are worth between £20-25 m each,so they could ,if the MOD are `canny`(and they are usually not),recoup £280-350m...but that will also mean ,they`ll have to pay-off Marshalls a lot in compensation...so there might only be enough left to buy 1 new A400,or 1 F35 at £100m each.....

Well so far Bangladesh Bahrain and the US Navy have done well from the other short Hercs

Judging from the way used vintage (E and H model) Hercs are still scooped up by air forces all around the world, I would imagine the ex-RAF J-30 fleet being pretty attractive to all sorts of countries. Depends on their condition of course.

That and the fact that the Germans and French have bought Js to fill the gaps in the A400s capabilities should be an object lesson to the SoS for Defence whose decision it was to can the ac. Clearly saving a (relatively) small amount of cash trumps a significant loss of capability which is not what the defence review was meant to be about.

Of course it should be an object lesson but I'd be willing to bet it won't. Our procurement/planners have been woeful in that regard for decades, probably longer.

One of the guiding principles was to scrap anything that was costing maintenance and replace (eventually, maybe..) with new - same with the frigates and the Warriors

I think this whole sorry saga puts to bed once and for all any discussion about whether or not the Government gives a monkeys about capability as a primary factor. Capability comes a long way behind such factors as saving money and supporting ventures that create UK jobs. Clearly there’s nothing wrong with being financially prudent and ensuring British jobs but it would be nice to see a balance. Personally I believe that in time the A400 will make an excellent asset (although I can’t see it performing some of the esoteric roles as well as the Herc) but I am very tired of hearing people talking about its’ “potential” as if that justifies dumping a CURRENT capability. It doesn’t. It’s going to a complete mess in 2023 because when we get there we will discover something considerably wider than a capability ‘gap’.

Last year the RNZAF announced it had agreed a price of nearly USD 1 billion (NZD 1.5 bn) for 5 C-130J-30s plus a Sim and 'supporting infrastructure" for delivery 2024-25. Just saying ...

I presume a number of sims, a rear cabin trainer and other rigs will become surplus. Have any C.4s, beyond the one returned in August last year, received the replacement centre wingbox?


On a note of levity. The OSD gives the chance to plan a formation farewell tour to former bases. May be in the light of Boris's East of Suez ambitions that could include Changi via Akrotiri rather than the extended circuit of Brize Norton, Lyneham, Fairford, Thorney Island, Farnborough, Cambridge(?), Brize Norton.:)

Given the current and possible future situation, surely retiring the Hercs now would be an absurd thing to do and also look ignorant?

Yes, totally. Unlikely to stop it happening though. They’ve probably already spent ‘the saving’ on some rainbow flags and new artwork for Main Building.

And those lovely new uniforms.

Apparently the RAF will get additional A400s which implies 22 x A400 aren’t enough after the Hercules are withdrawn.
The Ukraine situation should be a wake up call for our politicians & although a capability gap may save the Treasury some money it leaves us in a dangerous situation & unable to fulfill some roles.
We have lost the Sentinel, the Sentry replacement isn’t going enter until next year & the withdraw of the Hercules will leave us with insufficient transport aircraft - although I believe we should keep the Hercules, if they are going to withdraw them you would hope because of the Ukrainian situation they will delay it until the additional A400 enter service.

Not only the loss of the C-130s, but the C-17s won't keep going forever and there is no obvious strategic airlifter to replace them. I would imagine an A400M only airlift fleet for the RAF (that is, until they finally realise that the A400M is too big for some roles, and buy the C295/C-27J to do the lower end stuff)

Set the surplus C-130J's aside for the new Ukraine Air Force after this current mess is sorted out.

Overheard in the office of the head honcho bean counter in the treasury this week.

”bugger! I thought I told you to get rid of those bloody planes and all that expensive infrastructure before the next conflict! “

Definition of an accountant: someone who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Here is a link to the MoD sales brochure for a fleet of unwanted C130Js.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... re_34_.pdf

Beyond irony, in bigging them up, presumably for a quick cash sale, the brochure is basically a long list of reasons why we shouldn't be selling them, for example, "The aircraft that goes where others can’t, won’t or don’t!”

CAEBr - I do so agree. The brochure also describes the C-130J as So why the f*** are they selling the damn things???

airsound (ex trucky)