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N Korea developing new nukes, tactical weapons and a nuke powered sub
I suppose with the world in turmoil he’s taking advantage of Covid and the US elections to slip this in.
(CNN)North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said his country is developing new weaponry including a nuclear-powered submarine, tactical nuclear weapons and advanced warheads designed to penetrate missile defense systems. In comments published Saturday, Kim said North Korea is pushing ahead with the armaments to deter the United States, comments that appear to show President Donald Trump's strategy of high-level engagement with Pyongyang -- including three historic in-person meetings between Trump and Kim -- failed to convince Pyongyang to stop its pursuit of a modern nuclear arsenal. "No matter who is in power in the US, the true nature and the true spirit of the anti-North Korea policy will never change," Kim said, according to the country's state-run Korean Central News Agency (KCNA). "The development of nuclear weapons be pushed forward without interruption." https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/09/a...hnk/index.html |
Rather odd stories coming out about how the Young Leader hasn't been giving the normally unmissable New Years Speech (s) - things sound very bad there - economy sinking (again) CV19 rampant and stories of lack of food.
Even the "elite" shops are emptying of goods |
Looks like some services are seeking extra funding.
Bearing in mind from laying down of keel to entering full operational performance in Western countries takes 12 yrs ................ HMS Audacious, then I doubt their new sub will be operational before next doors child is ready to join up. The child was born in January of last year. |
Wouldn't this mainly upset China to have some sort of nuclear Mini-Me next door?
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10964735)
Wouldn't this mainly upset China to have some sort of nuclear Mini-Me next door?
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China's security is guaranteed by mountains in the southwest, deserts in the northwest, tundra in the north and northeast and water in the south. The only land entry, as the Japanese used about ninety years ago, is Korea.
What better than to have a nuclear armed lunatic guarding every inch of it. |
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
(Post 10965123)
China's security is guaranteed by mountains in the southwest, deserts in the northwest, tundra in the north and northeast and water in the south. The only land entry, as the Japanese used about ninety years ago, is Korea.
What better than to have a nuclear armed lunatic guarding every inch of it. Plus the example should encourage others who have arguments with China, such as Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, maybe Brunei, to muscle up. Longer term, is it to China's benefit to encourage proliferation? |
Originally Posted by etudiant
(Post 10965207)
Of course, a nuclear armed lunatic in the neighborhood might be incentive for others, such as S Korea or Japan to get their own as well.
Plus the example should encourage others who have arguments with China, such as Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, maybe Brunei, to muscle up. Longer term, is it to China's benefit to encourage proliferation? |
An early challenge to the spinal fortitude of the Biden Presidency - expect similar actions from China, Iran, and Russia in the coming year.
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Where does NK have all the money from? Nukes, missiles, subs. Not cheap to acquire especially under embargo rules. Will they blow their budget and collapse soviet union style with all this stuff going on?
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10965430)
Where does NK have all the money from? Nukes, missiles, subs. Not cheap to acquire especially under embargo rules. Will they blow their budget and collapse soviet union style with all this stuff going on?
This is really will be an early test for Biden - he's long been buddy-buddy with mainland China and it's not a secret that he plans to "improve" relations with China (whatever that means). Trump, for all his faults, understood that the Chinese are not our friends (with their own agenda) and treated them accordingly. |
NK also is deeply involved in all sorts of "dark web" trade - drugs of all sorts, arms dealing, financial scams etc
And of course they can devote as much of their GDP to arms as they like - its not the weasel like 1% of some European countries. In the past people have spent over 20% of GDP on arms (I seem to remember Israel was one of them). When you think that a Labour Govt in the UK financed an atomic bomb programme straight after the war when times were VERY tough you can see what can be done if it becomes an overriding national priority. And there is so much information out there for free these days - pictures, stories, brochures, books ,,,...... and people who are willing to help anyone for cash as well |
Another night, another parade. In The Times.
North Korea parades ‘world’s most powerful weapon North Korea paraded a ballistic missile designed to be launched from a submarine, in an implicit threat to the United States and a new assertion of military power and determination days before the swearing in of Joe Biden. The new missile, described by state media as “the world’s most powerful weapon”, was part of a large night-time military parade overseen by the country’s supreme leader, Kim Jong-un. Despite including a wide range of military units and weaponry it does not appear to have featured North Korea’s longest-range intercontinental ballistic missiles, which have the potential to launch nuclear warheads against the United States, suggesting Mr Kim’s wish to apply pressure on the US but not blatantly to provoke. “The columns of rockets possessed of powerful striking capability for thoroughly annihilating enemies in a pre-emptive way outside the territory, roared past,” a report from the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) said. “The world’s most powerful weapon, submarine-launch ballistic missile [sic], entered the square one after another, powerfully demonstrating the might of the revolutionary armed forces.” South Korea’s spy agency reported last November that North Korea was building a submarine capable of firing ballistic missiles, in a strategic breakthrough that would give Mr Kim renewed confidence in his ability to deter American military attack. |
This link has no paywall https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55671745
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You can bet the Big Fat One will NOT be going for a ride under the water.
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Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 10965828)
Most of their funds come from trade with China (most of the rest of the world has an embargo) - so the Chinese have to be somewhat complicit in allowing this to go on.
This is really will be an early test for Biden - he's long been buddy-buddy with mainland China and it's not a secret that he plans to "improve" relations with China (whatever that means). Trump, for all his faults, understood that the Chinese are not our friends (with their own agenda) and treated them accordingly. China was once 'The Middle Kingdom', with an estimated 40% of global GNP. Understandably, they would like to restore that status. They cannot be blamed if the US cooperates with their longer term goals by shifting its industrial base to China. |
Brings me back to the point can NK nukes be in China's interest at all? Aren't they even offensive towards their big brother?
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Originally Posted by Fonsini
(Post 10965398)
An early challenge to the spinal fortitude of the Biden Presidency - expect similar actions from China, Iran, and Russia in the coming year.
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It can't get worse.
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10969032)
Brings me back to the point can NK nukes be in China's interest at all? Aren't they even offensive towards their big brother?
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10969032)
Brings me back to the point can NK nukes be in China's interest at all? Aren't they even offensive towards their big brother?
The logical outcome of the proliferation initiated by North Korea is that everyone in the theater will need to go nuclear, including Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines and Indonesia, along with of course Japan and South Korea. Taiwan will be a special case, at least as it is considered a (renegade) China province, but they surely have the needed skills. So China's 9 dash map will only leave China surrounded by somewhat suspicious nuclear armed powers. I can only assume that China believes this proliferation is going to happen in any case, so that grabbing what is possible while it is still the case is the best long term policy |
It's like everybody else now gets a greenlight to "move on". And who would oppose them doing so? Finally China ends up in a region that will be nuclear armed all around. Because that one guy needed to have it first. It all happens under Beijing's watch.
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10969091)
It can't get worse.
Right now, people aren't shooting at each other - that could easily change. I've been to Seoul a few times - nice, modern place. If the various leaders don't do a good job, it could soon look more like Berlin circa 1945... |
Bringing back somebody a little more educated and rational will help in any case. Foreign policy was a nightmare under the current administration.
That happens when leaders have not a tiny bit of knowledge about history or foreign policy and diplomacy. If you then don't listen to the people around you in the know your are lost. I don't care wether the people of the US vote "left" or "right" but it needs to be some quality person. The Capitol events have proven he is not the right leader. Fighting the parliament has to be stopped. |
Looking back I'm not sure the colour of the Administration in Washington makes any difference to N Korea - they've been a problem for many, many years and the USA seems limited in what it can do to improve the situation
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Sanctions seem to not be enough to prevent certain countries from arming up. Lessons should be learned. Iran will be the next candidate.
And there must be a political concept what the region around any candidate is permitted and accepted to react with. This is not the stable and comfortable cold war one versus one scenario anymore. |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 10969611)
Looking back I'm not sure the colour of the Administration in Washington makes any difference to N Korea - they've been a problem for many, many years and the USA seems limited in what it can do to improve the situation
The subsequent murder of Qaddafi at the hands of a NATO sponsored group when he had earlier given up nuclear ambitions ensured that North Korea would never surrender their nuclear insurance card. China could possibly step in to halt this, but it would be hugely difficult, impossible imho without some sort of comprehensive regional agreement whose outlines even are hard to discern. |
The frontline went through South Korea, the one that was attacked back then, and -with UN help- back again until it stopped on the way back when China stepped in and the US halted to bomb the key supply line bridges in the north. The north used to be the rich part and the south the poor part that on top got destroyed twice.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uclear-reactor
UN atomic watchdog says North Korea appears to have restarted nuclear reactor |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 11103300)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uclear-reactor
UN atomic watchdog says North Korea appears to have restarted nuclear reactor So N Korea is looking forward to a world where the US dependent states such as Japan, South Korea or Taiwan move to ensure their own security. That puts N Korea into a more precarious position, hence the increased emphasis on their nuclear deterrent. |
Suspect it's to be able to play a card when asking for more aid - or rather threatening folk again and then offering a concession on stopping the reactor again in exchange for food
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In The Times this afternoon.
North Korea tests cruise missile that could reach Japan North Korea has test-fired a long-range cruise missile that may be able to deliver a nuclear warhead to South Korea or Japan in the latest sign of Kim Jong-un’s determination to increase his strike capability. According to reports and photographs on state media, two missiles travelled 930 miles and executed figure of eight manoeuvres above North Korea and its territorial waters. Pictures in the Rodong Sinmun newspaper showed a missile exiting one of five tubes on a launch vehicle in a ball of flame, as well as a missile in horizontal flight. Unlike nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, North Korean cruise missile tests are not banned under United Nations sanctions. However, such a weapon would be a marked advance in the regime’s weapons technology, better able to avoid missile shields. The test launches took place on Saturday and Sunday, according to the Korean Central News Agency. It described the missile as a “strategic weapon of great significance”, using a euphemism for nuclear-capable. Click the link for full article & photo etc. |
North Korea passed a law enshrining the right to use pre-emptive nuclear strikes to protect itself. The law also reinforces that their nuclear status is irreversible. Kim Jong Un also stated that there will be no bargaining over their nuclear weapons.
The law also specified the Mission, Constitution, Command & Control, Execution of Decision on Use, Principle of Using, Conditions of Using, Regular readiness, Safe procedures, Nonproliferation, Increase/Upgrading & Miscellaneous items in regards to their Nuclear Forces. |
Fair enough - he's joined the club and he sounds like he'll play by the same rules as the rest of us.
Maybe we can encourage the Russians to help him put in place some decent controls over firing authority - IIRC both the Indians and Pakistanis had to be encouraged to do that |
Nature abhors a vacuum.....same concept works in International Affairs.
North Korea correctly views such a situation with the current US Administrations Foreign Policy and is merely taking the opportunity to advance its own interests. We cannot fault them for that as that is how the game has and is played. When it comes to fault finding....we should be honest and point the finger at the cause of the problem....and a better equipped and more prickly North Korea is definitely a problem. Comparing the Trump approach to North Korea to Joe Biden's method....I think we can see a clear difference that exposes the shortcomings of the current regime. |
And Trump's approach was as success?
The basic problem is that NO US govt of whatever stripe wants a Nuclear armed N Korea - which is one reason the N Koreans have bust a gut to get the capability I'd rather they hadn't but I don't blame them |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 11294522)
And Trump's approach was as success?
The basic problem is that NO US govt of whatever stripe wants a Nuclear armed N Korea - which is one reason the N Koreans have bust a gut to get the capability I'd rather they hadn't but I don't blame them |
Fault Trump if as you wish....but Biden's approach damn sure ain't working.
We have two more years at a minimum of this gang of Loons being at bat....how much progress towards a genuine nuclear threat can North Korea achieve in that time not counting the lag in effect should a capable administration take office? |
How does poor NK fund all this?
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 11294573)
How does poor NK fund all this?
peanuts, so I understand your question. However, the rumour is that they've had some help from Iran and they have unlimited free workforce, meaning a substancial increment in the budget compared to rest of the world. |
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