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Paint schemes
The more I consider it the more I think that, if you’re relying on your paint scheme to hide in the 21st century battle space, you may be in trouble. Helicopters may be an exception.
With this in mind I’m all for holding open colouring competitions for school kids to design schemes for each of our aircraft types. OK, that last sentence may be stretching things just a little. BV |
Originally Posted by Bismark
(Post 10813441)
And painting it grey does that at 35,000ft? What about contrails etc?
I do, however, have a ‘thing’ about camouflage in the visual spectrum, however trivial it may seem to some, and had a ‘Desk’ interest in the field at MoD in the 90s. BTW, do contrails occur at normal tanking heights? Genuine question. |
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I despair. Oh, well, it will please the Media and Spotters. I’m just glad the Defence budget had £900,000 hiding down the back of the sofa. 😉
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Originally Posted by beardy
(Post 10813463)
Who is Larisa Brown and why should we take her word?
Doesn’t necessarily mean she isn’t telling the truth |
From Blacksheep: So the spare Voyager aircraft that Air Tanker leased to Thomas Cook is now looking for a new customer. The government decides to take it on and, since it isn't required for front-line military service, they wish to replace the Thomas Cook livery with a more patriotic one for use by Royalty and government ministers - like 32 (Royal) Sqn) for instance. The aircraft now released from it's Thomas Cook lease is part of Airtanker's surge fleet, which are leased out to make money (for Airtanker) when the RAF don't need them. Finding another airline willing to take it on is not an MoD task |
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Bloody good idea. Of course the usual suspects latched onto a handy excuse for Boris-bashing. But this aircraft is an important tool to sell the UK brand around the world. It doesn’t have to be grey and with hardly any exceptions, other nations VIP transports don’t routinely wear camouflage schemes.
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Originally Posted by Martin the Martian
(Post 10813439)
Mind you the first VC10 that was painted away from home came back with similar... |
Originally Posted by MPN11
(Post 10813453)
I confess that my original concern was simply expenditure on what I perceived as fripperies, especially in these difficult times.
I do, however, have a ‘thing’ about camouflage in the visual spectrum, however trivial it may seem to some, and had a ‘Desk’ interest in the field at MoD in the 90s. BTW, do contrails occur at normal tanking heights? Genuine question. The Voyager with the red RAF100 tail has flown on Ops. Apparently without being shot down. Is that tail a frippery or a worthwhile expense? At what range do you think it is possible to gain sight of the aircraft, versus being able to break out the tail paint? If the aircraft needed a repaint anyway (not sure if this is actually the case) then is it “frippery”? The cost would have been incurred whether it’s grey or red or.... |
A very quick search engine search indicates a 747 full paint job in the region of $200k, so £900k seems a bit of a piss take.
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Here's an idea, not new in some respects. Just about every nation state has a national airline, most are functionally insolvent but I digress... Why not have said national carriers occasionally, as needs be, lease a couple of their best aircraft, decked out in feather boas and/or whatever outrageous livery desired, to VIPS? Could be a marketing scheme for aforementioned state vanity project, whilst that airliner is not carrying about our moral and intellectually superior elected/appointed leaders. Imagine: "Fly the very airplane Justin the magnificent coiffed his bouffant in! Free Chrystia Freeland™ bobblehead figurine included! (for a small monthly fee charged to your credit card, no rights included...)"
Save a ton of dough and give flight crews a well paid reason to get out of bed that day. |
Martin the Martian: I like your colour scheme, but please can we have "Royal Air Force TRANSPORT Command"
Yes, I know, Transport Command hasn't existed these last forty-plus years, but humour an old man. |
How much of the Voyager is British made as opposed to, err, European made? Its all well and good getting the Reds to do our bidding around the globe in the Hawk, but what happens if someone asks? Could be interesting if Airbus consider their position in the UK post-Covid and sans a trade deal...
I reckon they should re-paint the BBMF Lanc, show the world who's boss and all that. |
RAF plane for VIPs gets a union jack makeover
From the Guardian.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d62d901fa6.jpg Air Force One for Boris? RAF plane for VIPs gets a union jack makeover The prime minister’s plane, also used by royalty, is getting a new paint job costing £100,000 plus Dan Sabbagh Defence and security editor Tue 16 Jun 2020 13.25 EDT The RAF VIP plane used by Boris Johnson and senior members of the government to travel around the world is to have its grey livery repainted red white and blue in a makeover estimated to cost more than six figures. The union flag-inspired paint job for the Voyager aircraft comes two years after the prime minister complained about the dullness of its former colour. When foreign secretary, Johnson said: “What I will say about the Voyager, I think it’s great, but it seems to be very difficult to get hold of,” before adding: “And also, why does it have to be grey?” Downing Street confirmed that a Johnson-inspired makeover was under way, while defence sources added that the plane is being repainted at a specialist secure hangar run by Marshall Aerospace near Cambridge. David Cameron commissioned a £10m refit of the rented aircraft – dubbed “Cam Force One” – when he was prime minister but to reduce costs and deflect public criticism the plane was intended to have a dual civilian and military use. But repainting it in the colours of the national flag suggests that it will be increasingly used for globe trotting by Johnson during the rest of his time as prime minister. Andy Netherwood, a former RAF pilot and defence commentator, said: “The issue is project creep. If it really is an all-over shiny paint scheme then it’s starting to look – operationally and politically – much more like Air Force One for Boris.” Currently the Voyager also provides air-to-air refuelling for other RAF planes when it is not being used by the prime minister, other senior ministers or members of the royal family, particularly for trips outside Europe. It is based on an Airbus A330 with a first class cabin for the prime minister or leading VIP on the flight, with club class seating for business delegates and conventional economy class seating at the rear, used typically by press. Tony Blair had planned to buy a plane towards the end of his time as prime minister, but the plans were scrapped by Gordon Brown in 2008 to save money. Ministers took scheduled flights or chartered planes if they wanted to take along a large delegation. The scheme was revived by Cameron, although by the time he was first able to use the plane in July 2016, the prime minister was on his way out of a job as a couple of weeks before he had been defeated in the Brexit referendum and resigned. A spokesman for the Royal Air Force said: “An RAF Voyager is currently in Cambridgeshire for pre-planned works.” • This article was amended on 17 June 2020 to change a reference from “Union Jack” to union flag, and clarify that the £10m spent on the aircraft under David Cameron’s administration was for a refit, not the cost of the plane itself. |
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Why grey?
From 13 years ago when the question was last asked:
Why grey, you may well ask.... It's an example of 'jointery' making optimal use of the UK's defence resources. When John Major was PM, his office decided that rationalisation was needed and turned to him for leadership... "Grey. I like grey. Grey is good. Pass me the peas please, Norma. Grey. Oh yes, absolutely. Have we got any grey?" Now many year ago, long before WEBF was making noises about Sea Harriers (or even any noises at all as he hadn't been conceived then - in fact, neither had his father), it was RN tradition to paint everything and anything a fetching tone of battleship grey. So the Great Lord Pusser ordered lots of paint. Millions and millions of tins of the stuff. But then along came defence cuts and there was soon more paint than ships. But Pusser was a wily cove. "Mr Major - I have a solution. You can paint the RAF's aeroplanes with some of my nice grey paint. I've got plenty to spare. You won't need to paint them in two-shades-of-sh*t, shiny white, hemp, brown or anything else. Just grey, lovely grey!" "Thank you - I shall see that it is done" And lo, it was. Except for the trainers. They used the black paint which Pusser had left over from the bit below the waterline of his old battleships. But there wasn't quite enough left in Pusser's paint locker, so the Dominie was painted to look like a skunk, with some of Pusser's finest white flagpole-paint on the top of the fuselage. But Pusser's paint was too heavy for the wretched little plastic planes which the RAF turned to for elementary flying training when they could no longer afford to buy their own, so they are au naturel in Bundesweiss fibreglass... Even the Army Air Corps were given the wretched grey, some years after their original supply of green and black became unavailable... One fine day when Woopert and Wodney of the Umpty-Umpth Queen's Own Chinless Pwancers were discussing horses' fetlocks, the price of bwown bwogues and pink corduroys over afternoon tea, they were alarmed to receive a call from their Corporal-of-Horse. "Sirs - there's something very strange just arrived at the Q-stores" W&W decided to investigate. Asking a passing competent NCO to show them the way, they discovered a puzzled quartermaster looking at a large metal object.. "Eh seh, wot is that, Quartermaster?" asked Woopert. "Errm, it says 'tank' on the label, sir" "Good gwief! It's not for us, is it? Does it eat hay?" squeaked Wodney. "Err, it is sir. It seems that we're to be a mechanised cavalry regiment - and this will replace our chargers" "Menc..Mechan....Mechanised cavalwy? Surely not - it's just isn't done" shrilled Woopert. But it was true. So some weeks later, vast quantities cans arrived at the Q-stores, marked 'Paint, green, little tanks for the painting of'. Much to the horrified astonishment of the Comptroller General of the Queens Paint. "How simply fwightful. It's sooo not us. I have all these tins of black enamel for making Dobbin's hooves look all spiffing on pawade - I don't want all this wuddy gween!" But the Corporal-of-Horse, being an NCO with a sound eye for a quick bob or two had an idea. "Errm, excuse me, Sirs, but I fink I can shift a few of them cans. I know a mate in the Army Air Corps...." "Army Air Corps - wot's that?" enquired Wodney. "Errm, well, Sir -you know, the chaps who fly around Salisbury Plain in helicopters" "Oh those fwightful bounders? Rotters who scared m'pony during m'last chukka at Tidders last week. Righty-ho, Corporal-of-Horse, they can have as much as they wuddy well want" said Wodney. "Errm, my mate'll need a bung to take 'em of me hands, Sir. Perhaps the regimental fund...." "Certainly, Corporal-of-Horse. The wedgiment's officers will sort that out for you. A couple of thousand or so to help with your efforts?" "Thank you very much, Sirs, I shall get on to it immediately" "Well see you do. Now cut along like a good chap. Spot of tiffin, Woopert?" And not long afterwards, the Army Air Corps' helicopters started to receive nice new green and black paintwork.....until the good Corporal of Horse was nicked by the Redcaps - and Pusser found himself with a new customer. |
The Johnson Jet(s)?
https://news.sky.com/story/plan-to-r...0-000-12008735
£0.9m for a Union Flag respray. Is that for just one airframe? I was under the impression that the core fleet comprised 6 airframes that could be used in passenger/Govt VIP role and, given the short lead time on missions, it'd be challenging to plan the fleet so that one specific airframe could be used for short notice PM need. It is reported that he complains that they are rarely available for him as it is. So if he needs one, and demands the new livery, does anyone know whether they are respraying just the one, or eventually all? Can imagine it going tech and not being on the spare.... So pleased to see this as the priority in these slow times when there's so little else for Govt to worry about. I can imagine Cabinet meetings pondering over a choice of livery designs on models arranged down the centre of the table. Hancock would want NHS logo on it, and Truss would effuse at the patriotic nature of arriving at Andrews AFB to sit down for trade talks with The Donald with it as a backdrop. So good to know we are 'back in control' and a strong world power once again. |
Can't see what all the fuss is about. Just another little-englander flag-waving exercise to make the buffoon feel important. The cost, apparently, is only £900,000 and a recent u-turn from Jenrick saved more than 40 times that amount in potential tax receipts. So give the little fat one a break - he hasn't got much else going for him at the moment.
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
(Post 10813523)
How much of the Voyager is British made as opposed to, err, European made? Its all well and good getting the Reds to do our bidding around the globe in the Hawk, but what happens if someone asks? Could be interesting if Airbus consider their position in the UK post-Covid and sans a trade deal...
I reckon they should re-paint the BBMF Lanc, show the world who's boss and all that. |
Hmm, 101 posts on this rather mundane subject. Must be a very quite no-news day.
I'd caution against putting BJ on the fin though. When in the day job a few years ago I was tasked in looking for a support ship with certain special features. The only ones I knew of were from a US company called BJ Services (absolutely true!) However, when I Googled on just the initials (1) I found out that, contrary to old Abe's assertion, all men are not created equal, and (2) our head of cyber security was a really decent chap at my interview without coffee. Finally, if you want to save the alleged £900k for the paint job, why not ask all those nice protester people in London or wherever. They sem to be dab hands with spray cans. Apologies: I am joking and rather bored after all this time in my little cell/world. |
Why not get all the British airlines bid for the
privilege of transporting our VIPS (&Royals), or let them take train, taxi if more appropriate. When I lived in Holland the was a government aircraft which was rented out to private companies when not needed. |
Voyager looks good photo shopped in Air Support Command livery.
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
(Post 10812491)
What's the problem - do you think red or blue paint is more expensive than grey? It's got to have paint on it, and military aircraft often get custom paint schemes. Do you complain about those too?
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Bandwagon Alert
The Thomas Cook aircraft would need to be resprayed in any case if a conflict occurred. Thomas Cook A330 is now defunct. The Voyager is a crap aircraft compared to the KC10 - no Upper Deck Cargo Door so you can use it for errrrr....Cargo in times of need - like now instead of Stoddy having to do it! Air Tanker are a private operation contracted by the MoD. They can have their aircraft sprayed Sky Blue with Pink Spots for all I care. Certain tinge of remoaner on this web-site.... . |
Does it really cost nearly £ 1m to repaint the top half of an A300 Ir is there more being done.
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and has deprived the tanker fleet of an AC at a time when there is more pressure on our assets. MPN11, pi§§ed-off Tory. |
Not sure it's anything to do with remoaners really. Is spending nearly a million quid on some paint to tart up a bunch of military planes the best thing Johnson can come up with to distract the masses from his catastrophic premiership? This seems to appeal solely to those who would go out and "defend" statues of less desirable historical figures.
Remember the outrage from the populace over Blair Force One etc? |
Yup - thought so. And which branch of Aviation are you in?
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The aircraft has been on checks at Cambridge.
it was probably due a repaint on completion anyway. I doubt painting it other than grey overall will cost an additional £0.9 million. I suspect someone with an agenda is agitating the fertiliser !!! David |
Originally Posted by Diesel_10
(Post 10813595)
Bandwagon Alert
The Thomas Cook aircraft would need to be resprayed in any case if a conflict occurred. Thomas Cook A330 is now defunct. The Voyager is a crap aircraft compared to the KC10 - no Upper Deck Cargo Door so you can use it for errrrr....Cargo in times of need - like now instead of Stoddy having to do it! Air Tanker are a private operation contracted by the MoD. They can have their aircraft sprayed Sky Blue with Pink Spots for all I care. Certain tinge of remoaner on this web-site.... . And yes, I’m in ‘a branch of Aviation’. |
Even the French a/c has got their `Flag` on the fuselage wrong ....
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Boris Farce One
Hmm.... Never having been a fan of the dull grey colour but acceding to the policy of tone-down colouring for ‘camouflage’ reasons, I groan seeing the Voyager /Boris paint-job story.
As if he hasn’t spent enough of my tax money in the last couple of months and I would have thought that this would never have got past the Government bean-counters. “Just add it on to the Covid-19 £££s billions we now owe.” I suppose. They should have thought of this when they obtained the aircraft but I suppose Marshall’s will do well out of it and keep a few more employed for a short while... I wonder what garish mixture of red, white and blue BJ will come up with. Hope it doesn’t look as scruffy as his haircut. I suppose he could ask Nigel Farage for a suitable slogan to paint down the side. “ BJ’s Brexit Express– Made by Airbus (in the EU)” Cynic that I am, ......but I bet it will look very nice. |
I've never understood the British reluctance to having a proper VIP aircraft for the Head of Govt/Head of State.
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The aircraft has been on checks at Cambridge.
it was probably due a repaint on completion anyway. I doubt painting it other than grey overall will cost an additional £0.9 million. I suspect someone with an agenda is agitating the fertiliser !!! |
Have some respect for our country, get the thing painted. We have just bankrupt ourselves with furlough. A few quid no big deal
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Well my problem is that it’s either going to look
a) like any other red white and blue a/c e.g. the French, the Canadians b) s***. I did like the 2012 Hawk. But that would look ludicrous on an A330. |
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