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-   -   The F-35 thread, Mk II (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/630295-f-35-thread-mk-ii.html)

Asturias56 28th Aug 2020 16:25


Originally Posted by Geordie_Expat (Post 10872749)
And yet you spend so much time slagging off BAe. You really don't know what you want.


No - I was commenting on Nuts post - I'm not a great believer in protecting home grown industries at all costs - over the years its been a recipe for vast amounts of taxpayers cash being shoveled into things that went bust - and were clearly going bust for a long time. Getting shot of the NCB, British Leyland, British Steel and all the other industrial behemoths has made the UK a richer place

chopper2004 4th Sep 2020 14:19

Wake Island Avengers arrive last night
 
With the work up of QE first deployment next year, and embarking usmc F-35B, last night VMFA-211 arrived at Marham. MCAS Yuma based VMFA-211 ‘Wake Island Avengers’ had made their long journey over couple of days then staging overnight in Bangor before 24 hour delay, they finally arrived here last night. So here are my photos of them arriving (first batch arrived in just enough light while second arrived in dark),

cheers


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5d0c13b6e.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e2cda0bad.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1ae943044.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f8333f958.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9f85e74d6.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....133b3c2b6.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....56b095e44.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c4251fe18.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....eb024d348.jpeg

Lonewolf_50 4th Sep 2020 18:48

It would appear that the flying Jarheads have arrived. :ok:
Hope they have a great workup/ workout with the home side.

FODPlod 8th Sep 2020 11:12

Tucked up for the night.



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....505a5660f.jpeg

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...at-raf-marham/

RAFEngO74to09 22nd Sep 2020 20:06

F-35 Lightning II couldn't fly with B-52s due to .... lightning !

https://theaviationist.com/2020/09/2...d-sky-mission/


Lyneham Lad 30th Sep 2020 15:49

Interesting Comment column in today's Times.
Top Gun diplomacy helps US win friends


It would be comic if it were not so ruinously expensive. The F-35 fighter, a project two decades in the making at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, had so many flaws it might as well have been the ramshackle police truck in a Keystone Cops movie. Pilots complained of piercing ear pain in the cockpit, their built-in guns played up. Sometimes a flat tyre could set off a series of errors. Engineers found 873 software glitches, a dozen of them serious enough to impede a mission.

And yet here we are: the F-35, the American-built fighter for the next generation of war, has arrived and though only a few have actually seen action it is already changing geopolitics. The US Marine version of the plane was filmed this week making an elegant landing on Britain’s new aircraft carrier, HMS Queen Elizabeth, and next year the carrier and its planes, both British and American, are due to steam off to the tense South China Sea.

The US carrier Carl Vinson, recently retrofitted to take F-35s, looks likely to be heading in the same direction. Whatever happens in the US presidential election, the betting is that Beijing will be putting pressure on Taiwan to assess whether the West is willing to fight for it.

Despite all the hiccups in its development, the F-35 is a demonstration of military prowess. Its stealthiness — its ability to avoid radar — has forced both Russia and China to plough research into radar, new air-and-sea tactics and defences including an S500 missile. Russia was certainly rattled when Norwegian F-35s escorted two American B-2 “Spirit” stealth bombers over the northernmost parts of the Norwegian Sea. The mission was to test the ability of Nato allies to co-ordinate at high Arctic altitudes in what could soon become a new battleground.

There’s a danger that everyone comes to see the F-35 as a shortcut to security, that we’re all drinking from the rather muddy fountain of Hitler’s V2 Wunderwaffe. It is not a miracle machine and won’t be even when the technical flaws have been ironed out. But it ticks a lot of boxes: close air support, air-to-ground attacks, aerial dogfights, vertical take-off and a sucker-up of intelligence. The pilot has a 360-degree view; his helmet feeds him with, and usefully prioritises, incoming data. The plane is a nimble flying computer that can hide from the enemy. Because of its design, but also because of the way it has been marketed, it makes for extraordinary levels of real-time battlefield communication between allies. And it can be adapted to different theatres of war.

That’s why it has become such a political tool. The combination of breech-loading, longer-range rifles — meaning camouflaged attackers could lie down and shoot behind cover — gave Afrikaner farmers the edge over red-coated British soldiers in the Boer war. “I never saw a Boer all day till the battle was over, and it was our men who were the victims,” groaned a British general. That was the power of stealth, of accuracy and nimbleness and is what the fifth generation of fighters offers.

Little wonder, then, that the F-35 was the subject of a side deal when the US brokered a peace accord between Israel and the United Arab Emirates. The UAE has formally requested the fighter. Israel already has it, about 24 at present, possibly rising to as many as 75, and was the first to use it in an active strike. Earlier this year it wiped out an Iranian or Iranian ally’s ammunition convoy crossing Syria.

The US has pledged it won’t allow Israel to lose its military advantage over Arab states so, if it agrees to supply the UAE, it must find a way that prevents their F-35s from hitting those of Israel. That’s a gamble but in the short term at least it should draw the two countries closer in countering the pernicious influence of Iran.

Saudi Arabia may be the next to request the fighter. Again, this would not be a straightforward transaction. The first batch of the F-35 is being manufactured and sold at the same time as it is being developed, hence the high number of technical problems. They are serviced and maintained as part of the sales contract, with both the manufacturer and the purchaser learning more as they go along. Later deliveries will thus be more attractive than the retrofitted earlier ones.

What happens to the old fleet? Are they going to be used as an expensive training tool? Or will they be sold on in a grey arms market? If Saudi Arabia were to pass on its older F-35s to Pakistan, there would be trouble ahead. Britain’s decision to be in at the beginning on the F-35, alongside Australia, Canada, Israel and Italy, was nonetheless the right one. The coming integrated defence review aims to set our strategic priorities and may, in the light of tightening Covid-era budgets, conclude that Britain can get by with fewer than 70 fighters, rather than the original target of 138. At the moment we’re down for 48 by 2025 at a cost of £9 billion and 18 have arrived.

It’s a conceit, though, to believe we can choose our war or confine it to one theatre. The reality is that conflict has a way of finding us. The next few years will be defined by a hostile China. Putin’s Russia is inherently unstable. Small wars will merge or trigger bigger ones. Command of the air will be crucial; it’s not the time for us to retire as a military power.


etudiant 1st Oct 2020 01:04


Originally Posted by Lyneham Lad (Post 10895615)
Interesting Comment column in today's Times.
Top Gun diplomacy helps US win friends

As someone now deceased noted 'quantity has a quality all its own'. One may legitimately wonder whether any 'silver bullet' system, no matter how shiny, will influence the larger sweep of things.
The F-35 is quite unaffordable, even for the UAE. The maintenance and upgrade costs will sap their resources for the life of this project. Also, no credible military effort is built around a few dozen unreplaceable wonder weapons.
There is a separate thread here on PPruNe about the last days of the British Empire in Aden.
What is stunning is the disconnect between the technically advanced gear of the losers, the British, compared to the primitive weaponry of the winners, the local insurgents. But apparently we've learned nothing.

henra 4th Oct 2020 14:50


Originally Posted by etudiant (Post 10895923)
As someone now deceased noted 'quantity has a quality all its own'. One may legitimately wonder whether any 'silver bullet' system, no matter how shiny, will influence the larger sweep of things.
The F-35 is quite unaffordable, even for the UAE. The maintenance and upgrade costs will sap their resources for the life of this project.

But that would apply to all current Fighters (maybe apart from the Gripen). Be it EF, Rafale, newest F-15, F-16, F-18. Doesn't make that much of a difference. Ok you might be able to afford 18 instead of 15. However, that is not the quality that said person spoke of....

RAFEngO74to09 6th Oct 2020 14:15

F-35A Crash - Eglin AFB - 19 May 2020- Accident Report
 
Executive Summary:

The AIB President found, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the mishap was caused first, by the MA touching down at 202 KCAS, and second, by the MA flight control surfaces, namely the tail of the aircraft, conflicting with the MP inputs upon landing, resulting in the MP’s inability to recover from the aircraft oscillation.

The AIB President also found by a preponderance of the evidence that four additional factors substantially contributed to the mishap. The substantially contributing factors are:

- the MP landed with Speed Hold engaged and using an alternate crosscheck method

- the MP Helmet Mounted Display misalignment distracted the MP during a critical phase of flight

- the MP experienced cognitive degradation due to fatigue

- the MP lacked systems knowledge on flight control logic

https://www.airforcemag.com/app/uplo...ort_Signed.pdf

JohnDixson 6th Oct 2020 14:26

AF Magazine today:

Eglin F-35 Crash Blamed on Landing Speed, but Software, Helmet, Oxygen Also Faulted

By John A. Tirpak
Excessive landing speed was the primary cause of the May 19 crash of an F-35A at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., though faulty flight control logic, the helmet mounted display, the jet's oxygen system, and improper training and were all contributing factors, according to an Air Force investigation. An Accident Investigation Board found that the principle reason for the crash was the pilot setting a “speed hold” of 202 knots indicated airspeed for the landing, which was 50 knots too fast, while the jet's approach angle was too shallow, according to the report released Sept. 30. The second main cause was the tail flight control surfaces “conflicting” with the pilot’s apparently correct efforts to recover the jet after it bounced on the runway, a problem the Air Force said was a “previously undiscovered anomaly in the aircraft’s flight control logic.” The plane and pilot “quickly fell out of sync,” as the flight computer commanded nose down while the pilot commanded nose up, attempting to abort the landing and go around. Sensing that he was being “ignored” by the airplane, the pilot ejected, sustaining significant but non-life-threatening injuries.

etudiant 6th Oct 2020 16:53


Originally Posted by henra (Post 10898108)
But that would apply to all current Fighters (maybe apart from the Gripen). Be it EF, Rafale, newest F-15, F-16, F-18. Doesn't make that much of a difference. Ok you might be able to afford 18 instead of 15. However, that is not the quality that said person spoke of....

Exactly!
Judging by the results from the various engagements over the post WW2 period, it is totally true. However, we appear impervious to the evidence.

JohnDixson 6th Oct 2020 21:40

I posted the AF Magazine Daily Report article in the F-35 vs C130 thread and the powers that be moved it here. The reason I posted it there was this section:
"The second main cause was the tail flight control surfaces “conflicting” with the pilot’s apparently correct efforts to recover the jet after it bounced on the runway, a problem the Air Force said was a “previously undiscovered anomaly in the aircraft’s flight control logic.” The plane and pilot “quickly fell out of sync,” as the flight computer commanded nose down while the pilot commanded nose up, attempting to abort the landing and go around. Sensing that he was being “ignored” by the airplane, the pilot ejected, sustaining significant but non-life-threatening injuries.
"
While the article clearly has import in this thread, It is possible that this particular factor, or a variation on it, may have been part of the 35/130 meeting. Just supposing.. Maybe a copy can be posted over there?

JohnDixson is online now Report Post

Easy Street 6th Oct 2020 23:09

I should think it very unlikely that a pitch control anomaly would cause a midair collision during probe and drogue refuelling for the simple reason that the receiver is (supposed to be) behind the tanker. Up and down movement could certainly tear the probe off the receiver or rip the drogue off the hose, but neither would be expected to cause much damage due to the presence of weak links. Besides, the instinctive response to any developing danger during refuelling is to slam the throttle to idle and “exit stage rear”, emphatically not “exit stage forward via the tanker’s right engines”.

josephfeatherweight 7th Oct 2020 01:44


An Accident Investigation Board found that the principle reason for the crash was the pilot setting a “speed hold” of 202 knots indicated airspeed for the landing, which was 50 knots too fast, while the jet's approach angle was too shallow, according to the report released Sept. 30.
It would be very interesting to read more about why this speed of 202 knots was selected (apparently incorrectly) by the pilot and why the aircraft's abnormally high speed was (apparently) ignored??

OK465 7th Oct 2020 17:08

200 is recommended maneuver speed to the FAF. Initial speed selection was not an error. The subsequent errors made were not then selecting the proper final approach speed at the FAF for the ILS and not recognizing this had not been done due to HMDS distractions. He also failed to disconnect the auto thrust compensation prior to touchdown, and (gasp) failed to transmit, "Mayday, mayday, mayday." prior to ejection.:}

gums 7th Oct 2020 18:55

Salute!

Thanks, Okie.

I am having a hard time assigning cause to a unknown CLAW. Least in Viper, we didn't have a "bounce" mode.

Saw some interesting changes in the laws when checking out folks and saw another feature testing the "big tail” mod back when earth still cooling.

Gums sends...

212man 7th Oct 2020 19:22


Originally Posted by josephfeatherweight (Post 10899529)
It would be very interesting to read more about why this speed of 202 knots was selected (apparently incorrectly) by the pilot and why the aircraft's abnormally high speed was (apparently) ignored??

you can read more in the accident report linked to earlier

josephfeatherweight 8th Oct 2020 04:15


you can read more in the accident report linked to earlier
Many thanks - sorry, didn't see the report was linked... Will have a read...

T28B 8th Oct 2020 16:12


Originally Posted by JohnDixson (Post 10899430)
I posted the AF Magazine Daily Report article in the F-35 vs C130 thread and the powers that be moved it here. The reason I posted it there was this section:
"The second main cause was the tail flight control surfaces “conflicting” with the pilot’s apparently correct efforts to recover the jet after it bounced on the runway, a problem the Air Force said was a “previously undiscovered anomaly in the aircraft’s flight control logic.” The plane and pilot “quickly fell out of sync,” as the flight computer commanded nose down while the pilot commanded nose up, attempting to abort the landing and go around. Sensing that he was being “ignored” by the airplane, the pilot ejected, sustaining significant but non-life-threatening injuries.
"
While the article clearly has import in this thread, It is possible that this particular factor, or a variation on it, may have been part of the 35/130 meeting. Just supposing.. Maybe a copy can be posted over there?

JohnDixson is online now Report Post

John: I'll edit the post I made to alert people of the move, and quote the bit you think is a connection. Thanks for following up.


chopper2004 23rd Oct 2020 10:18

IDFAF F-35 female
 
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1d2134e8f.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....19b3cf02d.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....da77abb44.jpeg


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