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-   -   The F-35 thread, Mk II (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/630295-f-35-thread-mk-ii.html)

golder 19th Dec 2021 02:03


Originally Posted by LateArmLive (Post 11158039)
It would be even brighter with a purchase of F35A. 44 B models aren't enough to be worthwhile.

They may be waiting for block 4 hardware.

LateArmLive 19th Dec 2021 02:08


Originally Posted by golder (Post 11158056)
They may be waiting for block 4 hardware.

That would be the optimistic way of looking at it - it might even work out too!

NutLoose 19th Dec 2021 02:33

Do be serious, we are talking the U.K. plc here, I’m still surprised they didn’t try to re-engine it. ;)

Flap Track 6 19th Dec 2021 20:32


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11158058)
Do be serious, we are talking the U.K. plc here, I’m still surprised they didn’t try to re-engine it. ;)

We did - F136

Buster15 20th Dec 2021 14:02


Originally Posted by Navaleye (Post 11158023)
The F35 is the only way to go now for most nations. Typhoon and Rafale are obsolete and going out of production. For the UK the future is bright. It's F35b

I thought that Rafale had just got an order for 80 jets. Shame that Typhoon had not sold a lot better. But it is pretty expensive, primarily because of the 4 nation consortium.

rattman 20th Dec 2021 21:59


Originally Posted by Buster15 (Post 11158716)
I thought that Rafale had just got an order for 80 jets.

It did 80 for UAE, also think that if something cant be sorted with the US govt over the F-35 the rafeal order for the UAE will be increased. Also still a possibility for some for indonesia. But the foreign sales possibilites of both the EF and Rafael are starting to dry up.

golder 20th Dec 2021 22:57


Originally Posted by Buster15 (Post 11158716)
I thought that Rafale had just got an order for 80 jets. Shame that Typhoon had not sold a lot better. But it is pretty expensive, primarily because of the 4 nation consortium.

The F-35 is built in many states and nations. It isn't the reason the EF is expensive. Rafale in built in one and is expensive.

Buster15 21st Dec 2021 10:03


Originally Posted by golder (Post 11158887)
The F-35 is built in many states and nations. It isn't the reason the EF is expensive. Rafale in built in one and is expensive.

Both F35 and Rafale only have one final production build line. EF has 4, which I do know adds to the unit cost. Duplication of expensive resources.
However, I was not suggesting that it is the only reason why it is so expensive. Just one of them.
An example is that when bidding for an export sale, all 4 nations have to work on their own supply and support costs individually, then submit them to EF who coordinate the final submission.
Very much doubt that is the case for Rafale for example.
F35 price is a function of the large number of units produced.

henra 21st Dec 2021 10:30


Originally Posted by Buster15 (Post 11159058)
Both F35 and Rafale only have one final production build line. EF has 4, which I do know adds to the unit cost. Duplication of expensive resources.
However, I was not suggesting that it is the only reason why it is so expensive. Just one of them.

I have the distinct feeling that Airbus Defence ist the only one who fully includes already incurred Overhead costs into the calculation: Cue: The F-35 is getting cheaper and offers for late comers like Switzerland and Finland seem to be based purely on production costs/marginal costs plus a small margin to contribute to Overhead costs from the past (e.g. development costs).EF is getting more and more expensive over time.

golder 21st Dec 2021 11:02


Originally Posted by Buster15 (Post 11159058)
Both F35 and Rafale only have one final production build line. EF has 4, which I do know adds to the unit cost. Duplication of expensive resources.
However, I was not suggesting that it is the only reason why it is so expensive. Just one of them.
An example is that when bidding for an export sale, all 4 nations have to work on their own supply and support costs individually, then submit them to EF who coordinate the final submission.
Very much doubt that is the case for Rafale for example.
F35 price is a function of the large number of units produced.

Do you want to count the F-35 production lines again? I'll start you off in the EU with Italy.

GeeRam 21st Dec 2021 12:59


Originally Posted by golder (Post 11159077)
Do you want to count the F-35 production lines again? I'll start you off in the EU with Italy.

Plus Japan assemble their own A's IIRC.

So, that's 3 so far.




Buster15 22nd Dec 2021 09:23


Originally Posted by GeeRam (Post 11159125)
Plus Japan assemble their own A's IIRC.

So, that's 3 so far.

Correction accepted.
I thought that the Italian FACO was only for repairs. And was not aware that Japan had a production build line.
So thank you for your update.

melmothtw 22nd Dec 2021 15:45


Correction accepted.
I thought that the Italian FACO was only for repairs. And was not aware that Japan had a production build line.
So thank you for your update.
The Italian and Dutch F-35As were/are built in Italy, and it may be offered to other European customers in future (Greece, Spain, etc).
The Japanese were back and forth for a while about where their F-35s would be built, but I wasn't aware that any had actually rolled off the line at the country's FACO. I thought that was being used as an MRO facility, but standing by to be corrected.

chopper2004 30th Dec 2021 23:24

Mystery customer
 
Any guesses?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...he-stealth-jet

I have had a cursory look at the dsca.mil to assertain which one of the new customers it could be?

https://www.dsca.mil/search/node?keys=f-35

Cheers

rattman 30th Dec 2021 23:50


Originally Posted by chopper2004 (Post 11162828)

Smart money is saying singapore. Singapore has some F-35B's coming, the rumor is a its study to see about putting isreali software and systems in the singaporian B models

Israeli PM had a clandestine visit to singapore in october

golder 31st Dec 2021 00:46


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11162832)
Smart money is saying singapore. Singapore has some F-35B's coming, the rumor is a its study to see about putting isreali software and systems in the singaporian B models

Israeli PM had a clandestine visit to singapore in october

Israeli stuff is plug and play. It has already been incorporated and shouldn't need to be redone.

rattman 31st Dec 2021 00:52


Originally Posted by golder (Post 11162845)
Israeli stuff is plug and play. It has already been incorporated and shouldn't need to be redone.

Firstly I dont believe it is all plug and play, the intial plan was but the US relented and gave them access to the core operating system to put in their electronics, secondly singapore is getting B models and while the ADIR's are based on A models

golder 31st Dec 2021 03:13


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11162848)
Firstly I dont believe it is all plug and play, the intial plan was but the US relented and gave them access to the core operating system to put in their electronics, secondly singapore is getting B models and while the ADIR's are based on A models

They gave then nothing. They didn't even give UK, their T1 partner access. The US did the work in the states for them. They plug in and have no access to the core software. Even reprograming lab for mission data files. Are done in the US under supervision.

chopper2004 2nd Jan 2022 15:43

Thailand next?
 
Bangkok eyeing them up

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...5-stealth-jets

cheers

SpazSinbad 4th Jan 2022 22:10

South Korean F-35 Conducts Emergency ‘Belly Landing’ 04 Jan 2022 Greg Hadley
https://www.airforcemag.com/south-ko...belly-landing/
"A South Korean air force F-35 pilot was forced to make an emergency “belly landing” but managed to escape unharmed Jan. 4, according to multiple media reports. The incident was caused by “avionic system issues,” South Korean air force officials told news agency Yonhap, which caused the landing gear to malfunction and resulted in the pilot landing on a runway with the gear up. Before the landing, a fire engine deployed a special foam on the runway, “which prevented the jet’s fuselage from sustaining any serious damage,” officials added. The full extent of the damage has not been reported...."


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