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Saudi Student Shooting at NAS Pensacola
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/06/florida-shooting-reports-pensacola-naval-base-latest
Florida naval air station shooter was Saudi student, says official An aviation student from Saudi Arabia opened fire in a classroom building at the naval air station (Nas) in Pensacola, Florida, on Friday morning, a US official said, an attack that left three dead in addition to the assailant. The assault was the second at a US navy base this week and prompted a massive law enforcement response and a lockdown at the base. The student, who was fatally shot by a sheriff’s deputy, was a second lieutenant in the Saudi air force, said two US officials who spoke on condition of anonymity to disclose information that had not yet been made public. The officials said authorities were investigating whether the attack was terrorism-related. |
1st Press Conference:
2nd Press Conference: 11 others hospitalized - excellent reaction from both DoD security forces and the local Sheriff's department with the threat neutralized within minutes within a 2-storey aviator's classroom building - 2 of the deputies shot - non-life threatening injuries. Shooter smuggled the weapon on base - firearms not allowed on base except for military / civilian security and law enforcement. |
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and at Pearl harbour............. :(
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/u...-shooting.html A US sailor opened fire at the historic military base in Pearl Harbor on Wednesday afternoon, authorities said, killing two civilian workers and injuring a third before taking his own life. The incident took place at the naval shipyard, just days before thousands were scheduled to gather at the storied military base to mark the 78th anniversary of the Japanese bombing that launched the US into the second world war. The shooter was identified on Thursday as 22-year-old G Romero, according to a military official who spoke on condition of anonymity to provide details that had not been made public. The names of the victims were not yet released. Rear Adm Robert Chadwick, the commander of Navy Region Hawaii, said he did not know the motive behind the attack, nor was it known if the sailor and the three male civilians had any type of relationship. “We have no indication yet whether they were targeted or if it was a random shooting,” Chadwick said. |
Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung. |
"Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung."
would you apply the same penalties to everyone who filmed the recent London Bridge Incident Vin? |
Originally Posted by VinRouge
(Post 10634312)
Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung. |
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Another bulletin from the Associated Press:
Official: Base shooter watched shooting videos before attack By BILL KACZOR and BRENDAN FARRINGTON 12 minutes ago PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) — A US official says the Saudi student who fatally shot three people at a Florida naval base had hosted a dinner party the night before to watch videos of mass shootings. The official was briefed by federal investigators and spoke on condition of anonymity. He says authorities tell him one Saudi student was recording outside the building while the shooting took place. He says 10 Saudi students are being held at the base and that several others are still unaccounted for. THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. |
It won't bring back those poor shooting victims but SA should be made to pay tons and tons of money to all the victims and victim's families. Who selected those guys for foreign exchange training?
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10634465)
Who selected those guys for foreign exchange training?
As AFP observes: The shooting marks a setback in the kingdom's efforts to shrug off its longstanding reputation for promoting religious extremism after the September 11, 2001 attacks in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. https://news.yahoo.com/saudis-distan...113700686.html |
Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 10634523)
After the 9-11 attacks who knew that Saudi flight students might be a problem? :confused: |
Victims named and some additional information from a prepared statement by the CO.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/08/navy-names-the-three-sailors-killed-in-pensacola-shooting-spree/ |
In the flying school I was working at, the school had no say in who the Saudi students were, they were selected on their side of the puddle. Usually they had a daddy who was a colonel or a general, and one of the students was from the al-Saud family, but a long way down the line for the throne.
The majority were only there for the status of being in the military and the higher status of being a pilot. Passing the course was low on their list of priorities, compared to the delights of living here outside the sandcastle. Graduation presents from their families included the odd Ferrari. |
"Lone wolf, acted alone, no known ties to terrorism, isolated random act of violence etc. are the customary disclaimers in these incidents"
You're right Bubba - that's what they roll out whenever anyone goes crazy in the USA and shoots a bunch of innocents - they're nutters with a gun that's all |
At college in the US, I saw many students from abroad who seemed to fit in comfortably, being able to find friends and meaningful things to do, and a very few who remained mostly in their room, uptight, critical and distant. These latter were difficult to talk to, as if their real self remained hidden behind a screen or filter of their own 'superior' culture. Did their parents hope that by sending them abroad the experience might open them up, I wondered?
I suspect that the King will be wanting to know if there are any others like him in the Saudi Air Force. His kind of thinking is not looked kindly upon there. |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 10634352)
"Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung."
would you apply the same penalties to everyone who filmed the recent London Bridge Incident Vin? |
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10634886)
If they were associated with the knife man, yes.
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"It allows for a certain degree of complicity, non?" I'm baffled, honestly - are you saying they are accomplices (but be careful..... )
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FBI Update 8 Dec 19 - only the US Attorney and the SAC FBI Field Office Jacksonville spoke - nothing new apart from the following official confirmations:
- It has been classified as an act of terrorism. - There was only one shooter whose identity was officially confirmed. - All foreign students have been accounted for (there had been some fake news to the contrary). - No Saudi students are in FBI custody - they have been confined to base by their CO - they are cooperating with the investigation. - The firearm was a Glock Model 45 9mm and it was purchased legally (again contrary to fake news regarding foreign nationals not being allowed to purchase firearms - there must be some applicable exemption clause). All other obvious questions were asked but the FBI SAC declined to answer due to the ongoing investigation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T4gYNgv_ew#t=23m07s |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 10634722)
"Lone wolf, acted alone, no known ties to terrorism, isolated random act of violence etc. are the customary disclaimers in these incidents"
You're right Bubba - that's what they roll out whenever anyone goes crazy in the USA and shoots a bunch of innocents - they're nutters with a gun that's all Then, if a connection to radical Islam is indicated, the obligatory 'Muslims fear backlash' article is posted. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just some observations on the formulaic American news coverage. I'm curious about the timing of two attacks at Navy bases a couple of days apart. Was the Pearl Harbor shooting done by a mentally disturbed sailor who had been to Captain's Mast and then given a gun to guard his boat? Was the Navy Pensacola attack a sudden copycat jihadi response? Or, were these shootings planned together as hard to defend against insider attacks against the Great Satan as revenge for killing some ISIS leader? |
The Saudi's are not our friends.
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If you take out the dog-whistle "Saudi" it's another US "man-with-gun kills innocents " which happens with alarming frequency I'm afraid which will continue as long as the current interpretation of the Second Amendment is supported
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Not a dog whistle, Asturias; that was a really lame attempt to be cute if you bother to remember what happened at Fort Hood.
1. I suggest that you clue up about Saudi pilots who have been part of the "train foreigners" package the USN has had in place in Pensacola for decades. (We also have had boatloads non Arab sorts, like NATO allies and Brazilians, reaching back to well before I ever showed up there as an ensign while Carter was president ...) While a few get with the program and did well, far too many were in that billet due to a family connection and prestige. Nearly two decades ago I was confronted with an asylum request (had to staff it) from one of these "not so right stuff" candidates. This non performer, having been disenrolled due to lack of performance, was asking for political asylum since he was afraid he'd be killed when he got home due to the shame he caused his family. We eventuall punted that one off to OLA at the Pentagon, and they handled it). 2. As to this case, this little Saudi Snowflake has no business in an aviation squadron, if this article is to be believed. As the F.B.I. continues to conduct interviews with everyone at the Pensacola Naval Air Station who may have had contact with the gunman, identified as Second Lt. Mohammed Alshamrani, a new report emerged that the Saudi trainee filed a formal complaint earlier this year against one of his instructors, who left him “infuriated” in class by tagging him with a derogatory nickname. The complaint, quoted in a communication circulated among people connected to the flight training, said that the instructor referred to Lieutenant Alshamrani as “Porn Stash” in front of about 10 other aviation students, embarrassing and angering him. Do you accept that as justification for shooting up a classroom, or not? |
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 10635763)
Not a dog whistle, Asturias; that was a really lame attempt to be cute if you bother to remember what happened at Fort Hood.
1. I suggest that you clue up about Saudi pilots who have been part of the "train foreigners" package the USN has had in place in Pensacola for decades. (We also have had boatloads non Arab sorts, like NATO allies and Brazilians, reaching back to well before I ever showed up there as an ensign while Carter was president ...) While a few get with the program and did well, far too many were in that billet due to a family connection and prestige. Nearly two decades ago I was confronted with an asylum request (had to staff it) from one of these "not so right stuff" candidates. This non performer, having been disenrolled due to lack of performance, was asking for political asylum since he was afraid he'd be killed when he got home due to the shame he caused his family. We eventuall punted that one off to OLA at the Pentagon, and they handled it). 2. As to this case, this little Saudi Snowflake has no business in an aviation squadron, if this article is to be believed. Got his little panties in a wad over a call sign / flying name. That one's pretty mild compared to stuff I saw all over the fleet. Do you accept that as justification for shooting up a classroom, or not? https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...term=PornTache |
I think, peter, that if you bother to read the whole article, a complaint was filed and a personnel action taken.
“Appropriate personnel action was taken regarding the incident in question, corrective action was taken, the matter was closed back in April, and we have no further comment,” Mr. Busey said. Also, Peter, I'll thank you not to insult my intelligence. I got the joke as soon as I saw the nickname, and the picture. I am guessing that you didn't. There is a picture of me from my flight school days (back before there was an internet) that has me sporting a similar mustache (albeit a bit fuller) on my face. My wife still laughs about it, when it comes up. Years later (as in, within the past decade) a friend saw it and asked me if I was going for the porn star look back in the day. I shot nobody, and I didn't get all outraged and indignant. Then again, I'm neither a snowflake nor a Saudi. |
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 10635837)
I think, peter, that if you bother to read the whole article that the Navy did something about it.
I guess we can put you in "apologist for murder" column, eh? Mainly because I think its wrong, but also because the world is full of dead people who insulted a delicate ego. There a lot of men who fall into that category.. "snowflake". I guess half of prison inmates are snowflakes in that case. |
Originally Posted by peter we
(Post 10635842)
I don't make personal insults, belittle or mock people.
Mainly because I think its wrong, but also because the world is full of dead people who insulted a delicate ego. There a lot of men who fall into that category. It happened to my people. So I care. The excuses you offer for that piece of dog crap are beneath contempt. Regarding snowflakes; if one has not got a thick skin, one is ill suited for military aviation. |
"train foreigners" package the USN has had in place in Pensacola for decades. (We also have had boatloads non Arab sorts, like NATO allies and Brazilians |
The loophole used to purchase the weapon legally was a hunting permit + proof of residence.
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10634465)
It won't bring back those poor shooting victims but SA should be made to pay tons and tons of money to all the victims and victim's families. Who selected those guys for foreign exchange training?
1. Significant State Department influence. 2. Vetting usually done by home nation, not by US. (Though a few new rules did crop up from DHS and State Department) 3. After 9-11, the Navy had a haiatus on admitting foreign students from selected states in the Gulf region, but not due to the Navy having a new policy, but rather because DHS (a recently created Department) had implemented rules that basically said "nobody gets flight training unless (fill in blank with list of requirements" 4. My memory, a bit faulty, was that we'd just stopped doing it. For some reason, I had thought that when Rummy kept pulling US folks out of Saudi and moving some home and some to Qatar and Kuwait, there was also a reduction in Saudi student input on this side but apparently that memory wasn't correct. The accessions only stopped for a while (and I don't think it was stopped for more than a couple of years). 5. I am about 75% sure that the following is correct: this most recent student (who did the shooting) was suposed to get the (fairly cheap) initial USN Nav/WSO training at Pensacola (Training Wing 6) and then proceed to a USAF training base to get WSO training for F-15's - which fits with the recent F-15 Strike Eagle variant the Saudis procured. (This tidbit from a different source) FWIW, from sometime in the 90's unitl the late 00's or early 10's, the USN and USAF had a multi service training deal going on for WSO's / NAVs / NFOs at TRAWING 6. This included a variety of NATO and other foreign students. (It was driven by both BRAC and Goldwater Nichols direction...) It appears that the use of Pensacola as entry point remains a viable path for some of the foreign aviation. students. |
An update from Reuters, are only the Saudis doing the uh, 'safety stand-down'? :confused::
December 10, 2019 / 2:45 PM Exclusive: Nearly 175 Saudi military aviation students grounded in U.S. after base shooting“A safety stand-down and operational pause commenced Monday for Saudi Arabian aviation students,” Lieutenant Andriana Genualdi, a Navy spokeswoman, said. She said the grounding included three different military facilities, including Naval Air Station Pensacola, Naval Air Station Whiting Field and Naval Air Station Mayport in Florida. |
Should our warfighters be allowed to be carry weapons?
NAS Pensacola shooting leads Navy instructor pilots to tell top brass: 'Arm us' Published 41 mins ago Last Update 10 mins ago EXCLUSIVE (Fox News) -- A group of U.S. Navy instructor pilots asked top military brass for permission to arm themselves in the wake of the shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Fla., where a Saudi military pilot gunned down three American sailors and wounded eight others. One of the shooting victims was the captain of the U.S. Naval Academy rifle team, an “excellent marksman,” according to his brother.“It’s so stupid that on a military base, the shooter was allowed to roam free for so long,” according to one instructor pilot. “In a gun fight, that’s an eternity.” The pilot, like others interviewed by Fox News, did not want his name used because he was not authorized to speak with the media. One of the pilots said Navy brass denied their request to arm themselves on base. Two pilots said the Saudi shooter had 10 minutes to carry out his deadly assault on defenseless Navy sailors at the “API” -- aviation pre-flight indoctrination -- building. The Naval Aviation Safety school is also located in the building. The instructor pilots said the incentive to arm was obvious. “We need to protect not just the pilots, but our aircraft that are worth millions.” One pilot called base security at NAS Pensacola and other Navy bases “mall cops,” because protection on the base has been outsourced to private security and many were “fat and out of shape.” “I have zero confidence the guy I show my ID card to at the gate could save me,” one pilot added. Fox News spoke to three Navy instructor pilots Tuesday. It’s an opinion shared by many across the military, including the U.S. Army; more than a dozen soldiers and an unborn child were gunned down at Fort Hood in 2009. “We trust 18-year-old privates in combat with grenades, anti-tank missiles, rifles and machine guns, but we let service members get slaughtered because we don’t trust anyone to be armed back here in the United States,” a senior U.S. Army officer told Fox News. “Why are we cowering in our offices, it’s insane,” the officer added.The first responders to the shooting at the military base were cops off base, not members of the military, which the instructor pilots found insulting. The gunman, Saudi Arabian Air Force 2nd Lt. Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, was shot and killed by a deputy from the Escambia County Sheriff's Office. The U.S. Marine Corps for years has provided armed Marines known as “Guardian Angels” to watch over training at The Basic School for newly minted Marine officers in Quantico, Va., outside the nation’s capital. The Guardian Angels have watched over the young officers during live-fire training and were ready to respond. Some service members asked for a similar program for the Navy, even for flight school. “Our message is simple: arm us,” one pilot said. “We don’t want to count on cops or gate guards to save us in a crisis.” There was no immediate comment from the U.S. Navy about reversing the policy when Fox News asked. The Saudi pilot was training to be a naval flight officer, a “backseater” in military jargon, not a pilot, one of the instructor pilots told Fox News. The family of one of the three victims, Ensign Joshua Kaleb Watson, 23, who had graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy this past May, urged lawmakers and military officers to allow service members to protect themselves on base during an appearance Tuesday morning on “Fox and Friends.”Watson captained the 2018-2019 U.S. Naval Academy rifle team, according to the Naval Academy Athletic Department. “He was well qualified to have a firearm and defend himself. If we are going to ask these young men and women to stand watch for our country, they need the opportunity to defend themselves. This isn’t the first time this happened and if we don’t change something, then it won’t be the last,” said Adam Watson, Joshua’s brother. “My brother was an excellent marksman. If my brother had not had that right stripped from him, this would be a different conversation.” Joshua’s mother, Sheila, agreed. “He was my baby. It hurts me. It doesn’t really anger me as much as it hurts me. My baby was standing watch and he lost his life because he wasn’t armed,” she said. Joshua’s father, Benjamin, described his son’s heroism. “We know that he was shot at least five times and then somehow found the strength, bleeding profusely to make it out the door to tell first responders. They came up to him and with basically his last breath, summoned his courage to give an accurate description of the shooter and his location so they could do their duty.” |
In the few armed conflicts I've been invited to, I've always thought to myself;
"You know what would make this place a lot safer? More people running around with weapons". |
Salute!
Don't know about many of you folks, but the safest place I ever served without worrying about a Jihadist was in South Vietnam during the sixties. Oh yeah, maybe some Charlie with a death wish, but they were not Muslims. Being an Air Commando, we "carried", unlike the F-100 troops at our base or a few other folks when we deployed to Pleiku. Almost everybody "carried" almost everywhere. So some nut that started shooting would have had maybe two shots before his head was blown off. The Fort Hood episode should have been a warning. I would take my chances with everybody being armed and one whack job around, than the whack job being the only one with a pistol. I am not all that sure that the perp bought the pistol by himself, as the background check is required for the pistol. OTOH, he could have bought an AR-15 or shotgun at a local store and walked out in 10 minutes. Meanwhile.... Our local offices in the Panhandle are all flying flags at half mast. The hero Ensign that warned everyone, then died was a local troop who dreamed of flying neat jets like I did almost 60 years ago, when I took my physical at Pensacola Naval Air Station to get an Annapolis admission. We are all mourning. ++++++++++++++++++++= I flew with and trained many folks from all over in the A-37 and then in the Viper. I flew with the only IAF group and Paki group to check out in the Viper at Hill. Had one Egytian colonel in my back seat for orientation ( family model Viper), but was getting out and never flew with any of them. As others have said, except for those Paki folks, most of the non-NATO pilots had "connections". In fact, our Paki pilots told many war stories about checking out "priveleged" pilots from the fiefdoms in the Mideast. Their opinion of them was low. They constantly reminded us that they were Muslims, but not Arabs. Take that any way you wish. Politics never came up. Gums sends... |
Hi gums, good to hear from you again!
Even though it's abundantly clear that you meant no offense, unfortunately the term 'Paki' is now considered to be offensive by simpering political correcto snowflakes over here. 'Pak AF' would probably be OK though. |
Originally Posted by BEagle
(Post 10636975)
Even though it's abundantly clear that you meant no offense, unfortunately the term 'Paki' is now considered to be offensive by simpering political correcto snowflakes over here.
From the University of Alaska at Fairbanks Alaska Native Language Center: Although the name "Eskimo" is commonly used in Alaska to refer to all Inuit and Yupik people of the world, this name is considered derogatory in many other places because it was given by non-Inuit people and was said to mean "eater of raw meat." https://www.uaf.edu/anlc/resources/inuit_or_eskimo.php |
Originally Posted by BEagle
(Post 10636975)
Hi gums, good to hear from you again!
Even though it's abundantly clear that you meant no offense, unfortunately the term 'Paki' is now considered to be offensive by simpering political correcto snowflakes over here. 'Pak AF' would probably be OK though. |
Originally Posted by peter we
(Post 10637349)
Paki means 'Pure', as a Pakistani man explained to me, its not a insult or offensive.
Capt. Timothy Kinsella, the Pensacola base commander, said there were about 200 foreign nationals currently training at the base. Another bit from media - served with least a grain, or even a pinch, of salt. https://www.military.com/daily-news/...vy-a_191211.nl Although terrorism has not been officially established as a motive for the shootings, the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors jihadist postings and activity, cited a Twitter account with a name matching Alshamrani's that included anti-American diatribes. "I'm not against you for just being American," the posts said, according to SITE. "I don't hate you because your freedoms, I hate you because every day you supporting, funding and committing crimes not only against Muslims but also humanity." Parroting the complaints of garden-variety useful idiots; shows no original thought, and borders one being a meme. |
When I was at school 40+ years ago I knew that none of my friends liked being called Paki so it predates both 'political correctness' and 'snowflake'. I don't think it's a case of being 'woke' more being sensitive to others. Or maybe not using such a broad sweep as banter. If I'm going to take the piss it will be because of your personal faults not an accident of your birthplace.
Like calling someone who can't understand this 'boomer'. Ok boomer? |
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