Hearing Loss
 

There was a compensation scheme in the late eighties or early nineties which I took advantage of even though I held a CAA Class One medical. Mine was on the basis that ASCEU had banned the wearing of helmets whilst crew changing on Pumas at night. The word got around quite a few ex service people locally and one friend who had done national service and was deafish in his right ear got it on the basis of firing a .303 rifle.

I received around £1,350 which I thought was OK at the time. It has stymied me for the £250,000 I could get now.

5000 hours of using those useless 'Airlite' headsets in the Vickers Funbus hasn't done my hearing any good....

I finally bit the bullet and went for hearing test with a company in Aberdeen just over two years ago. (age70) When I mentioned that I had tinnitus, he said he could produce a test tone that did not resemble tinnitus. That was indeed the case and my life has been transformed by a high-end hearing aid, tuned to match the audiogram of each ear. The RAF and CAA audiogram tests simply produced the standard tones, unlike the "warbling" notes of this audiogram

So: technology exists to obtain an accurate audiogram despite the presence of tinnitus.

My hearing loss was caused by the use of an antibiotic "Gentomicin" (excuse spelling) to fix an ear infection when on loan service to SOAF. I later found out that this was the "nuclear option" with a side-effect of hearing loss. This very powerful drug would normally be used for very serious conditions such as meningitis, where the side effects were acceptable given the seriousness of the disease. However, nobody told me that at the time.

When I left the RAF at age 38, my medical documents recorded that my hearing loss had been due to "exposure to musketry!" 9mm musketry and not 5000-ish hours on helicopters!

I discovered high-tone deafness when evaluating new headset designs at NATS. On leaving the RAF, I went for the pukka disability test, somewhere near Andover. The tester confirmed the diagnosis, saying it was "classic .303 damage" [from my Air Cadet days]. Sadly I was not deaf enough to qualify for a disability pension.

My wife is now accustomed to repeating herself frequently! :(

I recall having an audiogram while still serving. The doc perused the printout and declared that I must be on helicopters. "No!", I responded in a somewhat triumphant way. "Then it's the Hercules", he replied. He was right. Pre flights walking under a running ATM, even with the puny earplugs belatedly supplied, knocked out the same frequencies.

Hmn,
I must find out what 13000 hours on the C130K 'down the back' with those same useless Airlite headsets has done to my hearing !

Several years on V-force ground crew without any hearing protection, finally in early 67 we were issued with ear defenders. I went to stores to collect mine only to be given a deficiency chit because they didn't have any. I suppose that I could have torn the chit in half and stuffed half in each ear. It wasn't until the Vulcan arrived in Cyprus when I was issued with a pair, some of those nasty things with the oil filled pads that leaked within a couple of weeks and dribbled oil down your neck.

Many aircraft now require the use of Vamps, in-ear moulded ear defenders with a wired speaker to the helmet to try to mitigate the risk of hearing loss.

Could have done with them for 20 years on the Tornado!

Salute!

Yeah, besides the jet noise, som medications can definitely cause problems, and tetracycline was one that we used a lot for infections in the 'nam days. It seemed to be worse the younger you were.

My own loss was due to one day on the flightline and I apparently got zapped by a T-37. The years of tests narrowed it down within a few months. The cochlea hairs had been damaged, and it didn't help that I flew another 19 years and a few thousand hours in the belly of the beast. My tinnitus is very loud, but I grew used to it and my brain "cuts it out" for the most part. It is also at a higher freq than my major loss, which is top dozen keys on a piano. The Viper was about like the T-37 Tweet, and the initial Thunderbirds started their motors using the back up fuel control unit, as it had much lower frequencies for some reason. And they wanted to start facing the crowd.

The U.S. Vets Administration gives me a little over $100 per month, and that is O.K. considering the small price that I paid compared to many of my friends I started with back in 1964.

Gums sends...

PARDON !!?? (That's civvy for 'SAY AGAIN').

The path for ex-C130K dudes is an easy one. There was an infamous MoD document carefully produced detailing the impact to C130K aircrew hearing, the cost of a fix (ANR) and a final decision that is was 'cheaper to pay compensation' to the crews than provide additional hearing protection. Of course, the courts don't take kindly to that sort of decision making and the MoD has been hung by its own careful test and evaluation.

I think it is almost inevitable to have hearing loss after having flown noisy types for years. Luckily I seem to have escaped suffering the worst effects but definitely have high tone loss.

Pardon?
 

I too spent too long on the C-130K/H along with the F-4 etc and would really appreciate a copy of said letter!

Cheers
Carl

Brian W,
not sure what your request is but the hours are correct. Not a lot in the context of almost 30 years on the 'K' as an ALM but in later years a lot of 'clerking' got in the way. I should add in my groundcrew years on the Javelin, Hunter and Lightning. Each had their own flavour of hearing damaging frequencies.

At school our .303 range was in a quarry. My loss was also classic gunfire but I expect any claim should have been against the school.

However we were instructed not to wear the old G-helmet on the flight line as we could not hear a shouted warning - yeah right. 12 years later they started to consider proper hearing protection. My hearing loss and medical downgrading was from that period.

I retired 20 years on and was successful in getting an award. It was stated that it was for 'noise induced hearing loss' and would not get worse once away from that environment. Further deterioration would be age related.

A friend, ex-Lightnings and red Hawks, profoundly deaf, was refused any compensation.

FED, I wonder whether that compensation at the time could not be challenged today. My free NHS aids work quite well but spending ££££ on state of the art private ones are said to be better.

Which is the hearing loss for which I received compensation.

NHS-SpecSaver aids
 

I posted this before but it bears repeating.

You can see your GP and get an NHS Audiologic assessment. A basic NHS aid fits behind the ear (BTE) and a tube carries the sound into a large moulded plug, although not now in many trusts. Spec Savers has been contracted to provide hearing aid services. The use a much thinner tube, practically invisible, and tiny plugs that fit right in the ear.

For my first SS aids I was given plugs without any test fitting. One was painful and I asked for a smaller plug; it worked. Sometime latter I found the other ear was also sore. A second smaller plug fixed that.

You can then get a new test every year or sooner if there is a problem. You are entitled to replacement every 3 years.

Hearing loss as a result of working in or around aircraft is something that the RAF has been aware of since at least the early 1960's. Some time back whilst working on Human Factors at Cranfield Uni. I came across a medic who had worked on a project at Farnborough looking into this problem. As far as he could remember this was either 1961/2. The project concluded that whilst most jets of the period were capable of damaging hearing the worst by far was the Gloster Javelin. This was apparently something to do with the harmonics created by the Sapphire engines mounted side by side.

6z3, in 2017 I had problems with one aid. SpecSavers retuned it, i walked out and it was still u/s. Got a new appointment and the rule was replace both.

You need to challenge them.

I assume that MOD would claim that any hearing impairment in some of us older generation would be age related and not work related. As for medical records when I retired I signed a form to allow them to be sent to my GP. Despite several requests he never received them. Cock up or conspiracy ? I always assume the former.

I also had to chase up the RAF to send my medical documents to the local GP after I'd left. They never cover that sort of practical thing at resettlement briefs...

Several months after I'd left, I received rather an acrimonious note from the dental section, demanding to know why I'd missed some appointment they'd made for me. My reply involved a sex and travel suggestion.

When I finally signed up with a local fang-farrier, I asked whether they needed my documents from the RAF. "Don't bother, they'll take ages and won't be much use - we can do a quick assessment of our own, which will be more accurate", they advised. Which indeed they did.

I had test done when I left they said i had less than 1% of totally disability and was entitled to nothing does anyone have contact details of someone that is dealing with this? I do receive a war pension (20%) for damage to both knees and a rotary cuff injury to me left arm.
Thanks in advance.

Anyone know who the Lawyers are?

matkat, Hugh James

Hearing Aids
 

Please see the thread "Hearing Aids" from Oct 2017, in particular my replies numbered 21, 44, and in particular no 49. For those who followed that thread my ENT referral finally came through after 80 weeks.

A342

Two points. They can tell the difference between age related deterioration and noise induced hearing loss.

More importantly is the evidential trail to NIHL before retirement. If you were not medically downgraded and you are not applying immediately after retirement then they have wriggle room. You would then need expert evidence that your NIHL was not from recent cause.

matkat, they do not combine disabilities over 20%. My initial assessment was 19% (lump sum) with 4% for one and 15% the other. I can't remember which was which. On reassessment I was awarded that crucial 1% and got a pension. My next door neighbour was awarded 33% for burns and lung tissue damage. When I say he walks his dog every day and climbs mountains, do not think he had been faking. He is not as fit as he was prior to the petrol explosion.

6z3, nothing ventured. I have just sent a message to them.

If anyone wants the Submission I was asked to prepare by DOR(Sea) in 1998, just ask. It was intended to be topped and tailed into an Air Staff Requirement, and specifically mentions both fixed and rotary, in all Services. Also, groundcrew. At the time, legal advice was 'the clock runs on litigation from now', as a fully integrated Helmet ANR system had been deployed (i.e. powered from, and part of, the intercom), and the Digital ANR was under development to bring the noise dose below the mooted 75dB(A). Other in-ear devices that have become popular were rejected by the Services at the time - ANR was the agreed solution. OR did not proceed. It was left to whoever had the gumption to do it on any given aircraft. Some of the above comments are true - few gave a toss and I'm glad the court has taken a dim view.

I'd say the date could be pushed back a few years, as the RAF had run a programme for Harrier in the 80s, but run up against the problem of miniaturising it to fit in a Mk10 (?) helmet. However, they gave up instead of committing more to the Applied Research Package. Sea King AEW & HC4 picked it up again in 1994, and it entered service in 1998.

TUC, "At the time, legal advice was 'the clock runs on litigation from now', '

Not sure on this. If ear protection for engine noise for instance was not issued then people serving at that time, is pre-74 were highly susceptible to high tone deafness. It was certainly known.

From 1978 improved protection was available, but was it effective? Did everyone have it?

From about 1990 wearing such protection was enforced, but again, was it effective?

Simply setting a date does not address the issue of those already exposed compared with those who subsequently did not use the kit provided.

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Hearing Aids
 

6z3 I would suggest that you go, as in my entry above, to the Hearing Aids thread in 2017. My replies, numbers 21, 44 and 49 should help. I suspect that the website you pointed out does exactly the same as Specsavers did for me, help with the paperwork, do a hearing test and look at your service medical records to note any deterioration compared to your in/leaving service records. The Veterans Hearing Fund, which is where your website will be seeking funding from, is funded by governments Veterans Agency and administered by the Royal British Legion. Contact your nearest legion branch and they will help you sort things out. I was in our local shopping mall today and there were loads of screeching kids and babies. I switched my aids off. Blissful, they work both ways

Pontius

The clock I was speaking of ran from the date the risk of not meeting the 85dB(A) exposure limit could be reasonably eliminated, with a period of grace to allow for implementation. One would have to look up when the 85dB(A) limit was introduced.

Many such 'legal' requirements were only taken seriously when individuals lost Crown Immunity in the late 80s. As I alluded to, there was a very conscientious Group Captain who managed an Applied Research Package, but he got precious little support and when he retired the RAF lost a 'champion'. It was pure luck that the RN's first formal requirement to mention the limit as an 'essential' (Sea King AEW Radar System Upgrade) was endorsed just before he left, and he was tracked down and his files transferred. As it happened, no bidder was compliant (some suggesting the main gearbox be redesigned), so the MoD(PE) Directorate took it on at risk (using underspends/offsets). The trouble with this approach is that you get the naysayers queueing up to criticise you for wasting money - as they did, frequently. £758 per helmet mod set. £500k+ compo, and more to come? Do the arithmetic.

Hitherto, as you say, hearing loss was well-known, and presumably someone deemed it tolerable and ALARP - because there was no engineering solution for aircrew using a helmet, primarily because the electronics were not small enough to fit in an earshell. For example, Racal had a pretty good system (but not as good as MoD's), but it didn't fit. (They also supply a very simplistic broadband ANR for army vehicles, but that is unsuitable and unsafe in an aircraft).

The point I'm making is that the award to the serviceman will have been based partly on when the solution was available, and what MoD did about it. That was the legal advice to us in the early 90s. The practical problem was, OR would go to the scientists at Farnborough (superb), who would produce reams of reports full of mind-numbing decibel notation. OR would topple. The AEW programme used a different ploy, expressing it as 'allowable flying hours'. The s**t hit the fan when this was calculated to be a mere 59 hours per year (and the subject of a Jane's article), the alternative being to give an 8-aircraft squadron several hundred aircrew. Questions were asked in the House. £758 per helmet mod became a no-brainer, even to beancounters.