Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Hearing Loss

Old 9th May 2019, 06:33
  #1 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 9,728
Hearing Loss

Must be a lot of hearing loss out there from jet noise - and hours monitoring HF radio......

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5...rine-d8jzm8mk5

£550,000 for deafened Marine

A former Royal Marine commando has been awarded £550,000 in damages after suffering noise-induced chronic hearing loss while on operations.

Alistair Inglis, 39, left the armed forces in 2012 after 14 years because of his disability, which was sustained in training and combat. The veteran, who now works in maritime security, served in Northern Ireland and Afghanistan, where he was a section commander in Helmand province and repeatedly came under fire. Lawyers for Mr Inglis claimed that the Ministry of Defence had failed to provided sufficient protective equipment.

After a deputy High Court judge awarded him damages yesterday, they said they had received instruction from 2,200 other serving and former personnel who claim to have had hearing problems.

The MoD admitted that Mr Inglis’s hearing loss and tinnitus had arisen “as a result of his negligent exposure to noise whilst serving in the Royal Marines” and said that liability should be split “80:20 in the claimant’s favour”. Disputing the amount of damages to which he was entitled, however, the MoD argued that Mr Inglis, from Plymouth, had left voluntarily while still “fit for all duties”. The High Court had heard in March that Mr Inglis had a hearing deficit equivalent to a man in his seventies.

Judge Peter Marquand found that the claimant had “left the Royal Marines because of his hearing loss”. He ruled that the government must pay him damages including £200,000 to cover future loss of earnings and just over £280,000 for future loss of pension. He said that an application by the MoD for permission to appeal against his ruling had been refused.......

ORAC is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 06:35
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 55
Eh.......?
Nomad2 is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 07:30
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Over the hills and far away
Posts: 30
Retired a couple of years ago after working for some 30- years in the back of a noisy ac. I first noticed
that my hearing had been affected, in my case tinnitus, when I could not hear the majority of 'beeps'
during my hearing test. I did not mention it until the doctor commented that my hearing was still fine.
I went back after 6- months for a further test and all was well they said. I now have constant high pitch ringing
in both ears. When I left the RAF I requested all of my medical records, but strangely enough there was no
mention of my visits.
Radley is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 08:38
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,505
There was a compensation scheme in the late eighties or early nineties which I took advantage of even though I held a CAA Class One medical. Mine was on the basis that ASCEU had banned the wearing of helmets whilst crew changing on Pumas at night. The word got around quite a few ex service people locally and one friend who had done national service and was deafish in his right ear got it on the basis of firing a .303 rifle.

I received around £1,350 which I thought was OK at the time. It has stymied me for the £250,000 I could get now.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 08:57
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,238
5000 hours of using those useless 'Airlite' headsets in the Vickers Funbus hasn't done my hearing any good....
BEagle is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 09:43
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Aberdeenshire
Age: 71
Posts: 62
I finally bit the bullet and went for hearing test with a company in Aberdeen just over two years ago. (age70) When I mentioned that I had tinnitus, he said he could produce a test tone that did not resemble tinnitus. That was indeed the case and my life has been transformed by a high-end hearing aid, tuned to match the audiogram of each ear. The RAF and CAA audiogram tests simply produced the standard tones, unlike the "warbling" notes of this audiogram

So: technology exists to obtain an accurate audiogram despite the presence of tinnitus.

My hearing loss was caused by the use of an antibiotic "Gentomicin" (excuse spelling) to fix an ear infection when on loan service to SOAF. I later found out that this was the "nuclear option" with a side-effect of hearing loss. This very powerful drug would normally be used for very serious conditions such as meningitis, where the side effects were acceptable given the seriousness of the disease. However, nobody told me that at the time.

When I left the RAF at age 38, my medical documents recorded that my hearing loss had been due to "exposure to musketry!" 9mm musketry and not 5000-ish hours on helicopters!
Lingo Dan is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 09:53
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 74
Posts: 5,109
I discovered high-tone deafness when evaluating new headset designs at NATS. On leaving the RAF, I went for the pukka disability test, somewhere near Andover. The tester confirmed the diagnosis, saying it was "classic .303 damage" [from my Air Cadet days]. Sadly I was not deaf enough to qualify for a disability pension.

My wife is now accustomed to repeating herself frequently!
MPN11 is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 10:09
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 77
Posts: 4,036
I recall having an audiogram while still serving. The doc perused the printout and declared that I must be on helicopters. "No!", I responded in a somewhat triumphant way. "Then it's the Hercules", he replied. He was right. Pre flights walking under a running ATM, even with the puny earplugs belatedly supplied, knocked out the same frequencies.
Chugalug2 is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 13:01
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: sussex
Posts: 1,561
Hmn,
I must find out what 13000 hours on the C130K 'down the back' with those same useless Airlite headsets has done to my hearing !
ancientaviator62 is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:20
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dead Dog Land
Age: 72
Posts: 409
Several years on V-force ground crew without any hearing protection, finally in early 67 we were issued with ear defenders. I went to stores to collect mine only to be given a deficiency chit because they didn't have any. I suppose that I could have torn the chit in half and stuffed half in each ear. It wasn't until the Vulcan arrived in Cyprus when I was issued with a pair, some of those nasty things with the oil filled pads that leaked within a couple of weeks and dribbled oil down your neck.
The Oberon is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: front seat, facing forwards
Posts: 980
Many aircraft now require the use of Vamps, in-ear moulded ear defenders with a wired speaker to the helmet to try to mitigate the risk of hearing loss.

Could have done with them for 20 years on the Tornado!
just another jocky is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 16:54
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: florida
Age: 76
Posts: 1,020
Salute!

Yeah, besides the jet noise, som medications can definitely cause problems, and tetracycline was one that we used a lot for infections in the 'nam days. It seemed to be worse the younger you were.

My own loss was due to one day on the flightline and I apparently got zapped by a T-37. The years of tests narrowed it down within a few months. The cochlea hairs had been damaged, and it didn't help that I flew another 19 years and a few thousand hours in the belly of the beast. My tinnitus is very loud, but I grew used to it and my brain "cuts it out" for the most part. It is also at a higher freq than my major loss, which is top dozen keys on a piano. The Viper was about like the T-37 Tweet, and the initial Thunderbirds started their motors using the back up fuel control unit, as it had much lower frequencies for some reason. And they wanted to start facing the crowd.

The U.S. Vets Administration gives me a little over $100 per month, and that is O.K. considering the small price that I paid compared to many of my friends I started with back in 1964.

Gums sends...
gums is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 18:43
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 449
Originally Posted by ancientaviator62 View Post
Hmn,
I must find out what 13000 hours on the C130K 'down the back' with those same useless Airlite headsets has done to my hearing !
PARDON !!?? (That's civvy for 'SAY AGAIN').
Brian W May is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 19:23
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,821
Originally Posted by ancientaviator62 View Post
Hmn,
I must find out what 13000 hours on the C130K 'down the back' with those same useless Airlite headsets has done to my hearing !
The path for ex-C130K dudes is an easy one. There was an infamous MoD document carefully produced detailing the impact to C130K aircrew hearing, the cost of a fix (ANR) and a final decision that is was 'cheaper to pay compensation' to the crews than provide additional hearing protection. Of course, the courts don't take kindly to that sort of decision making and the MoD has been hung by its own careful test and evaluation.
Just This Once... is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 21:13
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: West Country
Posts: 27
I think it is almost inevitable to have hearing loss after having flown noisy types for years. Luckily I seem to have escaped suffering the worst effects but definitely have high tone loss.
Blossy is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 21:37
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 49
Posts: 140
Just this Once, do you have a copy of the letter...or perhaps

DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE LETTER?

I might need it....
DCThumb is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 00:53
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: new zealand
Age: 58
Posts: 18
Pardon?

I too spent too long on the C-130K/H along with the F-4 etc and would really appreciate a copy of said letter!

Cheers
Carl
carlos755 is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 06:28
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: sussex
Posts: 1,561
Brian W,
not sure what your request is but the hours are correct. Not a lot in the context of almost 30 years on the 'K' as an ALM but in later years a lot of 'clerking' got in the way. I should add in my groundcrew years on the Javelin, Hunter and Lightning. Each had their own flavour of hearing damaging frequencies.
ancientaviator62 is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 07:52
  #19 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,517
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
deafish in his right ear got it on the basis of firing a .303 rifle.

I received around £1,350 which I thought was OK at the time. It has stymied me for the £250,000 I could get now.
At school our .303 range was in a quarry. My loss was also classic gunfire but I expect any claim should have been against the school.

However we were instructed not to wear the old G-helmet on the flight line as we could not hear a shouted warning - yeah right. 12 years later they started to consider proper hearing protection. My hearing loss and medical downgrading was from that period.

I retired 20 years on and was successful in getting an award. It was stated that it was for 'noise induced hearing loss' and would not get worse once away from that environment. Further deterioration would be age related.

A friend, ex-Lightnings and red Hawks, profoundly deaf, was refused any compensation.

FED, I wonder whether that compensation at the time could not be challenged today. My free NHS aids work quite well but spending ££££ on state of the art private ones are said to be better.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 07:53
  #20 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,517
Originally Posted by Blossy View Post
I think it is almost inevitable to have hearing loss after having flown noisy types for years. Luckily I seem to have escaped suffering the worst effects but definitely have high tone loss.
Which is the hearing loss for which I received compensation.
Pontius Navigator is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.