Bloody Sunday
 

Realistic chance of a conviction after 47 years of fading memories? Hmmm.

Imagine Venezuelan border guards kill some unarmed and peaceful Venezuelan protesters demanding that the US aid be allowed across the bridge, then what?

Just because someone is being prosecuted doesn't mean they are guilty... and just because they wear a uniform doesn't mean they are innocent... and just becasue it happened 50 years ago is no reason not to prosecute if the balance of evidence gives a reasonable chance of conviction.

Nope as PSNI are going after other sides as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-belfast-trial

Unpalatable as it seems IF there are reviewing ALL cases then it means ALL.

Here is what is happening at the Ballymurphy Inquests regarding 10 people killed over 3 days in the year before Bloody Sunday.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37911499.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37907353.htmlGranted anonymity by the coroner, witness M45 described the first day of internment and how his men arrested 18 suspects early in the morning of August 9, 1971. He described the rioting at the Henry Taggart base throughout the rest of the day, with soldiers firing 38 rubber bullets and discharging 11 CS gas cannisters as the base came under attack from petrol bombs, nail bombs and gunfire.He said he had provided his own briefings to his men on when they would be allowed to fire their weapons, rather than relying on the 'yellow card' rules of engagement for soldiers."You cannot deal with a riotous situation if you're looking all the time at a yellow card," he said.

There is no record of what he told people they could do.
==============
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37900325.html

Here is what was said by Senior British officer 3 days ago regarding Ballymurphy
Sir Geoffrey Howlett, 89, expressed “enormous sympathy” with families whose relatives perished in Ballymurphy in August 1971.One of the highest-ranking former British officers to appear before a Northern Irish inquest into conflict deaths said in Belfast: “I realise now that most, if not all, were not IRA.”
He accepted anyone who was not rioting could not be associated with armed republicans, despite the acknowledged level of support for the IRA in the area.

.
Just so long as they prosecute each and every member of the IRA/UDF whom they have a case against. Anyone who has been involved in the colour card system knows it is complete bollocks. If you are receiving incoming fire you shoot back to save your skin, reading the card can come later.

Oh, I think there is enough evidence to show that Soldier F was being rather liberal in the use of his SLR.

Is this not related to the Brexit discussions?

Can you support the suggestion that the demonstration was illegal?

Either way, should we allow British soldiers to kill unarmed British civilians on British streets?

Why would they be related to Brexit ? ALL killings in NI have been investigated and people have been charged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47568823

Why not allow facts get in way of reality.

How many members of OIRA/PIRA/INLA/UVF/UDA/LVF etc etc were charged and went to jail for killings. How many members of Security forces ?

The table below shows 3,593 deaths, Republican Paras - 2001, Loyalist Paras - 983, Security forces - 382. Of the 382, 208 are classified as civilians.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/vio...y98.htm#tables

I don't think he will be there. He died in 2003 having been shot during an armed robbery in Kenya.

Where is the "public interest" aspect of this prosecution? I accept that there might be a reasonable chance of conviction [although how you chose a jury in NI baffles me] but public interest?
Not as far as I am concerned

Interesting article, quite damning of the army and the civilian powers.

I think history is telling us that, rather than the IRA etc. being widely supported before these killings, these killings actually enflamed the situation, massively boosting support for the gun-toting nutters. Nobody was shooting at the soldiers and 13 protesters were shot dead, maybe because someone shouted 'they're likely to be armed corporal, shoot them'; wow. The DPP thinks at least one man is guilty of murder, lets see if they can prove it.

The families of innocent victims want to see justice, isn't that good enough in this civilised country of ours?

Who fired the first shot?
 

Let's have some balance here if some are using Wikipedia as an authoritative source?


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ay-280596.html

Whether or not soldier F is culpable, there were many convicted killers from all sides given amnesty after the "Good Friday Agreement" Should not the same terms apply to the British army who were basically there to keep the combatants apart?.

Breaker Morant?

In a word, No.

The Public Interest test is far more nuanced.

Whilst im uncomfortable with British troops deployed with their hands tied, the number of 'he raised the weapon as if to shoot' copycat testimonies don't enhance our reputation.
Here's another angle.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/...day-soldier-f/

We know what it means but what is the relevance please?

Let's try a different phrase then:

"The public gets the police force they deserve."

Well, the NI DPP thinks otherwise.

Worth a read https://webarchive.nationalarchives....04/#the-report

Surprised to read that the soldiers fired over 100 times and there was some shooting from the IRA...

" 5.4 We have concluded that the explanation for such firing by Support Company soldiers after they had gone into the Bogside was in most cases probably the mistaken belief among them that republican paramilitaries were responding in force to their arrival in the Bogside. This belief was initiated by the first shots fired by Lieutenant N and reinforced by the further shots that followed soon after. In this belief soldiers reacted by losing their self-control and firing themselves, forgetting or ignoring their instructions and training and failing to satisfy themselves that they had identified targets posing a threat of causing death or serious injury. In the case of those soldiers who fired in either the knowledge or belief that no-one in the areas into which they fired was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury, or not caring whether or not anyone there was posing such a threat, it is at least possible that they did so in the indefensible belief that all the civilians they fired at were probably either members of the Provisional or Official IRA or were supporters of one or other of these paramilitary organisations; and so deserved to be shot notwithstanding that they were not armed or posing any threat of causing death or serious injury. Our overall conclusion is that there was a serious and widespread loss of fire discipline among the soldiers of Support Company. "


Reading the summary it appears clear Wilford disobeyed orders and sent people in.

Now the issue of Military supporting Civilian Authorities has been mentioned in the event a Brexit crash in law and order. Based on the events of Bloody Sunday would the UK population want the Army on the streets.

From the same publication.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/...-soldiers-too/

No the were not - McGinnis has admitted as much, claiming he may have fired the first shots, not the Para Regt Lt.
Yes, people were firing at the soldiers

Nope and Bloody Sunday inquiry was clear on that. Not a single weapon was found on any of those who were shote. Army reacted to another army unit firing,

Because it showed units out control and even post this the establishment culture was all units were blameless.

Putting ANY troops onto the streets is dangerous. Putting an aggressive outfit such as paratroops even more so

It was clear on the day it was an out-of control reaction and the Brits spent years ignoring it. Now its accepted the legal guys swing into ation

You can't condone murder but it's a bit much that one poor b****** has to carry the can for everyone else

No weapons were found on the dead, which is a fair reason to believe they were innocent.

Maybe if the Para's had snuffed McGuinness (smiling as he cynically claimed he'd fired the first shots) out at the start, the following years of violence wouldn't have happened.

Perhaps one or two people commenting in this thread should Google "Op Banner" and learn about "peaceful" protest NI style, especially duirng the so called "marching season".

A good record to listen to (banned by both MoD and BBC STILL) (note this relates to an actual event)

Fully expect this to be moderated out :-(