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Bloody Sunday

Old 14th Mar 2019, 13:27
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Bloody Sunday

Scapegoat anyone?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 13:54
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Realistic chance of a conviction after 47 years of fading memories? Hmmm.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:00
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Imagine Venezuelan border guards kill some unarmed and peaceful Venezuelan protesters demanding that the US aid be allowed across the bridge, then what?

Just because someone is being prosecuted doesn't mean they are guilty... and just because they wear a uniform doesn't mean they are innocent... and just becasue it happened 50 years ago is no reason not to prosecute if the balance of evidence gives a reasonable chance of conviction.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:04
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Nope as PSNI are going after other sides as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-belfast-trial

Unpalatable as it seems IF there are reviewing ALL cases then it means ALL.

Here is what is happening at the Ballymurphy Inquests regarding 10 people killed over 3 days in the year before Bloody Sunday.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37911499.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37907353.htmlGranted anonymity by the coroner, witness M45 described the first day of internment and how his men arrested 18 suspects early in the morning of August 9, 1971. He described the rioting at the Henry Taggart base throughout the rest of the day, with soldiers firing 38 rubber bullets and discharging 11 CS gas cannisters as the base came under attack from petrol bombs, nail bombs and gunfire.He said he had provided his own briefings to his men on when they would be allowed to fire their weapons, rather than relying on the 'yellow card' rules of engagement for soldiers."You cannot deal with a riotous situation if you're looking all the time at a yellow card," he said.

There is no record of what he told people they could do.
==============
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37900325.html

Here is what was said by Senior British officer 3 days ago regarding Ballymurphy
Sir Geoffrey Howlett, 89, expressed “enormous sympathy” with families whose relatives perished in Ballymurphy in August 1971.One of the highest-ranking former British officers to appear before a Northern Irish inquest into conflict deaths said in Belfast: “I realise now that most, if not all, were not IRA.”
He accepted anyone who was not rioting could not be associated with armed republicans, despite the acknowledged level of support for the IRA in the area.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:42
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and just becasue it happened 50 years ago is no reason not to prosecute if the balance of evidence gives a reasonable chance of conviction
.
Just so long as they prosecute each and every member of the IRA/UDF whom they have a case against. Anyone who has been involved in the colour card system knows it is complete bollocks. If you are receiving incoming fire you shoot back to save your skin, reading the card can come later.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:44
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Oh, I think there is enough evidence to show that Soldier F was being rather liberal in the use of his SLR.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:48
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Originally Posted by Treble one View Post
Realistic chance of a conviction after 47 years of fading memories? Hmmm.
Im sure that those who were there demonstrating illegally will have crystal clear memories and will be backed up by all their allies.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:52
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Is this not related to the Brexit discussions?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:55
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Originally Posted by Capt Scribble View Post

Im sure that those who were there demonstrating illegally will have crystal clear memories and will be backed up by all their allies.
Can you support the suggestion that the demonstration was illegal?

Either way, should we allow British soldiers to kill unarmed British civilians on British streets?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 15:07
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Its is reported in the press that all marches had been banned until the end of the year. Here is a link, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
Some elements of an Irish mob in those days was likely to be armed, the IRA was active and at ‘war’ trying to kill soldiers. Ulster was a nasty place to be and those nationalist murderers seem to have got away with their murders.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 15:14
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Is this not related to the Brexit discussions?
Why would they be related to Brexit ? ALL killings in NI have been investigated and people have been charged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47568823


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Old 14th Mar 2019, 15:35
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Originally Posted by Capt Scribble View Post
Its is reported in the press that all marches had been banned until the end of the year. Here is a link, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
Some elements of an Irish mob in those days was likely to be armed, the IRA was active and at war trying to kill soldiers. Ulster was a nasty place to be and those nationalist murderers seem to have got away with their murders.
Why not allow facts get in way of reality.

How many members of OIRA/PIRA/INLA/UVF/UDA/LVF etc etc were charged and went to jail for killings. How many members of Security forces ?

The table below shows 3,593 deaths, Republican Paras - 2001, Loyalist Paras - 983, Security forces - 382. Of the 382, 208 are classified as civilians.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/vio...y98.htm#tables

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Old 14th Mar 2019, 15:52
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
One must presume that their commander(s) will also be standing in the dock beside them
I don't think he will be there. He died in 2003 having been shot during an armed robbery in Kenya.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 16:43
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Where is the "public interest" aspect of this prosecution? I accept that there might be a reasonable chance of conviction [although how you chose a jury in NI baffles me] but public interest?
Not as far as I am concerned
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 17:44
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Originally Posted by Capt Scribble View Post
Its is reported in the press that all marches had been banned until the end of the year. Here is a link, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
Some elements of an Irish mob in those days was likely to be armed, the IRA was active and at war trying to kill soldiers. Ulster was a nasty place to be and those nationalist murderers seem to have got away with their murders.
Interesting article, quite damning of the army and the civilian powers.

I think history is telling us that, rather than the IRA etc. being widely supported before these killings, these killings actually enflamed the situation, massively boosting support for the gun-toting nutters. Nobody was shooting at the soldiers and 13 protesters were shot dead, maybe because someone shouted 'they're likely to be armed corporal, shoot them'; wow. The DPP thinks at least one man is guilty of murder, lets see if they can prove it.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 17:46
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Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
Where is the "public interest" aspect of this prosecution? I accept that there might be a reasonable chance of conviction [although how you chose a jury in NI baffles me] but public interest?
Not as far as I am concerned
The families of innocent victims want to see justice, isn't that good enough in this civilised country of ours?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 18:20
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Who fired the first shot?

Let's have some balance here if some are using Wikipedia as an authoritative source?


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ay-280596.html
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 18:50
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Whether or not soldier F is culpable, there were many convicted killers from all sides given amnesty after the "Good Friday Agreement" Should not the same terms apply to the British army who were basically there to keep the combatants apart?.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 18:52
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Breaker Morant?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:49
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Kemble Pitts. I’ve no idea if he is guilty or innocent. But you questioned wether the protests were illegal. As soon as petrol bombs and bricks start flying, then I think that’s a breach of the peace and is against the law. Should you shoot? Well if you believe you are about to be killed, then that’s self defence. Cops in the USA claim this all the time and get away with it.
A bunch of young lads, armed to the teeth, were being attacked by a baying mob, it doesn’t matter if they were IRA or Women’s Institute, you had to be standing right there to judge what was illegal or not.
NOTHING condones murder, but you need good reliable evidence to prove it. Reliability might be difficult
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