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-   -   saluting a Prime Minister (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/618817-saluting-prime-minister.html)

staircase 26th Feb 2019 10:11

saluting a Prime Minister
 
A real genuine question, and no politics please, but constitutional answers only.

Watching our Prime Minister on the television, each time she passes a serviceman she gets a salute.

Since the Queen is both Head of State, and Head of the Armed Forces, and since in theory (obviously not in practice) in our (unwritten) Constitution the politicians and the Armed Forces are very separate, should a Prime Minister be saluted?


JagRigger 26th Feb 2019 10:32

I'll refer to AP818 the Drill Manual. Section 2 Part 1 - 'Because of their link with the Sovereign, the following are to be paid some form of compliment: b. Governors and Ministers to whom the Sovereign delegates authority'

staircase 26th Feb 2019 10:37

Well i guess that answers my question, thanks for the prompt reply.

MOSTAFA 26th Feb 2019 10:55

I would have no difficulty giving any MP a salute right now - the two-fingered:p type.

Training Risky 26th Feb 2019 10:57


Originally Posted by staircase (Post 10400772)
Watching our Prime Minister on the television, each time she passes a serviceman she gets a salute.

How many fingers...?!

Tankertrashnav 26th Feb 2019 11:18

I'll never forget my first salute. A newly commissioned APO, I was still 2 days short of my 18th birthday and I was walking down to the squadron on my first morning. I was saluted by a crusty old Regiment sergeant who was more than twice my age, and I very proudly returned the salute. When I got down to the squadron I told our 2 i/c that I had just had my first salute. He reminded me that when we salute we are saluting the appointment (and indirectly the monarch), not the individual. So I would have no difficulty in saluting a PM or minister of whatever political stripe - it would not imply any approval, or otherwise, of their policies.

charliegolf 26th Feb 2019 12:28


Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav (Post 10400824)
So I would have no difficulty in saluting a PM or minister of whatever political stripe - it would not imply any approval, or otherwise, of their policies.

Spot on TTN! Had I only saluted officers I'd approved of, I'd have been in perpetual poo!:ok:

CG

Just This Once... 26th Feb 2019 12:45

When HM Forces salute the respect and courtesy is ultimately being shown to or for HM The Queen. Her Majesty confers and delegates this honour on named individuals through commissioning scrolls, governorships, Secretaries of State, some Lords & Members of Parliament and even a few bishops if they have been appointed to the Privy Council.

Incidentally, Diane Abbott was appointed to the Privy Council in Feb 2017, so quite a high bar.

alwayslookingup 26th Feb 2019 12:48


Originally Posted by JagRigger (Post 10400781)
I'll refer to AP818 the Drill Manual. Section 2 Part 1 - 'Because of their link with the Sovereign, the following are to be paid some form of compliment: b. Governors and Ministers to whom the Sovereign delegates authority'

Until I read this I was always of the impression one saluted only holders of the Queen's/King's Commission. My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.

GANNET FAN 26th Feb 2019 13:07

In Gib many years ago, when the destroyer pens were still in use, I bumped into an old school friend who was on board one of HM ships and invited for drinks in the wardroom. On leaving and at the foot of the gangway, I received a very smart salute from himself and the OOW..
On other occasions and elsewhere on other ships I have seen guests receiving the same courtesy on leaving.

meleagertoo 26th Feb 2019 13:18

[QUOTE=alwayslookingup;10400900 My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.[/QUOTE]
Nor wearing a hat!

meleagertoo 26th Feb 2019 13:19


My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.
Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?

VictorSR 26th Feb 2019 13:52

But surely he is ?

Roadster280 26th Feb 2019 14:15


Originally Posted by alwayslookingup (Post 10400900)
Until I read this I was always of the impression one saluted only holders of the Queen's/King's Commission. My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.

I don't believe the President is required to return salutes (which are required by regulation), even though he is the Commander in Chief. However, Ronnie, having been a junior officer in the US Army during WW2, thought it embarrassing not to return the salute. He therefore instituted the practice (note practice or custom, rather than regulation). Since then, it's been a faux pas not to return salutes. Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:


MPN11 26th Feb 2019 16:37

I always understood that,in the US, the junior remained at the Salute untilit was acknowledged by the superior. Thus, hat or no hat, the superior released the junior from the salute posture.

Possibly I’m wrong, of course!

Old-Duffer 26th Feb 2019 16:52

Just be guided by when a gentleman would raise his hat (if such was still the fashion).

For those not strictly eligible to receive a salute, to do so is a matter of common courtesy.

.......... and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!

Old Duffer

air pig 26th Feb 2019 17:05


Originally Posted by Roadster280 (Post 10400960)
I don't believe the President is required to return salutes (which are required by regulation), even though he is the Commander in Chief. However, Ronnie, having been a junior officer in the US Army during WW2, thought it embarrassing not to return the salute. He therefore instituted the practice (note practice or custom, rather than regulation). Since then, it's been a faux pas not to return salutes. Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np7lObaDiBk

As was the late George H Bush, a junior officer in the USN during WW2 who followed Ronald Reagan as President.

Union Jack 26th Feb 2019 17:16


Originally Posted by GANNET FAN (Post 10400917)
In Gib many years ago, when the destroyer pens were still in use, I bumped into an old school friend who was on board one of HM ships and invited for drinks in the wardroom. On leaving and at the foot of the gangway, I received a very smart salute from himself and the OOW..
On other occasions and elsewhere on other ships I have seen guests receiving the same courtesy on leaving.

I would expect nothing less, on arrival and departure.


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 10400932)
Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?


Originally Posted by VictorSR (Post 10400950)
But surely he is ?

I see what you did there....

Jack

Pontius Navigator 26th Feb 2019 17:35

We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission and by extension as stated above.

teeteringhead 26th Feb 2019 17:49

O-D


.......... and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!
I hate to draws swords with you, but is that not a fairly recent thing, emulating the cousins who always salute a MoH.

Don't recall it from my training - but I was only gutter entry after all (or maybe asleep in that lecture). TTN will know I'm sure.....

Pontius


We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission
Likewise I beg to differ. We were taught (even gutter entry!) that saluting was the equivalent of raising ones hat, on greeting ANY lady.

In my bachelor junior officer youth, my salute impressed a number of young ladies...........:E

(of course, what constitutes a lady is also up for discussion)


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