saluting a Prime Minister
 

A real genuine question, and no politics please, but constitutional answers only.

Watching our Prime Minister on the television, each time she passes a serviceman she gets a salute.

Since the Queen is both Head of State, and Head of the Armed Forces, and since in theory (obviously not in practice) in our (unwritten) Constitution the politicians and the Armed Forces are very separate, should a Prime Minister be saluted?

I'll refer to AP818 the Drill Manual. Section 2 Part 1 - 'Because of their link with the Sovereign, the following are to be paid some form of compliment: b. Governors and Ministers to whom the Sovereign delegates authority'

Well i guess that answers my question, thanks for the prompt reply.

I would have no difficulty giving any MP a salute right now - the two-fingered:p type.

How many fingers...?!

I'll never forget my first salute. A newly commissioned APO, I was still 2 days short of my 18th birthday and I was walking down to the squadron on my first morning. I was saluted by a crusty old Regiment sergeant who was more than twice my age, and I very proudly returned the salute. When I got down to the squadron I told our 2 i/c that I had just had my first salute. He reminded me that when we salute we are saluting the appointment (and indirectly the monarch), not the individual. So I would have no difficulty in saluting a PM or minister of whatever political stripe - it would not imply any approval, or otherwise, of their policies.

Spot on TTN! Had I only saluted officers I'd approved of, I'd have been in perpetual poo!:ok:

CG

When HM Forces salute the respect and courtesy is ultimately being shown to or for HM The Queen. Her Majesty confers and delegates this honour on named individuals through commissioning scrolls, governorships, Secretaries of State, some Lords & Members of Parliament and even a few bishops if they have been appointed to the Privy Council.

Incidentally, Diane Abbott was appointed to the Privy Council in Feb 2017, so quite a high bar.

Until I read this I was always of the impression one saluted only holders of the Queen's/King's Commission. My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.

In Gib many years ago, when the destroyer pens were still in use, I bumped into an old school friend who was on board one of HM ships and invited for drinks in the wardroom. On leaving and at the foot of the gangway, I received a very smart salute from himself and the OOW..
On other occasions and elsewhere on other ships I have seen guests receiving the same courtesy on leaving.

[QUOTE=alwayslookingup;10400900 My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.[/QUOTE]
Nor wearing a hat!

Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?

I don't believe the President is required to return salutes (which are required by regulation), even though he is the Commander in Chief. However, Ronnie, having been a junior officer in the US Army during WW2, thought it embarrassing not to return the salute. He therefore instituted the practice (note practice or custom, rather than regulation). Since then, it's been a faux pas not to return salutes. Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:

Just be guided by when a gentleman would raise his hat (if such was still the fashion).

For those not strictly eligible to receive a salute, to do so is a matter of common courtesy.

.......... and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!

Old Duffer

As was the late George H Bush, a junior officer in the USN during WW2 who followed Ronald Reagan as President.

I would expect nothing less, on arrival and departure.

I see what you did there....

Jack

We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission and by extension as stated above.

O-D

I hate to draws swords with you, but is that not a fairly recent thing, emulating the cousins who always salute a MoH.

Don't recall it from my training - but I was only gutter entry after all (or maybe asleep in that lecture). TTN will know I'm sure.....

Pontius

Likewise I beg to differ. We were taught (even gutter entry!) that saluting was the equivalent of raising ones hat, on greeting ANY lady.

In my bachelor junior officer youth, my salute impressed a number of young ladies...........:E

(of course, what constitutes a lady is also up for discussion)

TTH, one was embarrassing the other could be pretending to be dashing hero.

Is one correct in observing a degree of casualness in the salute returned by some very senior officers?
More of a 3/4 wave of acknowledgment. rather than the hand snapped right up...?

At least he had the good grace to personally make amends, something that probably meant far more to the young marine.

Yes - I thought that was very gracious - that young man will remember it for the rest of his life.
I wonder if the pilots quietly reminded POTUS.

Sorry to disappoint TTH, but I am not really sure how far back that tradition goes. What I do know for certain is that it is not a requirement but just a custom. One thing I did discover when doing a bit of background reading is that the Australians actually have a regulation which states that holders of the Victoria Cross are NOT to be saluted unless they are serving commissioned officers. That did surprise me, I must admit

TTN may recall at Kai Tak we had a real live VC winner in Rambahadur Limbu of 1/10th GR, when things hotted up in 1967/8 and we gave a home to one of the roulement battalions (frequently GR but once 2 Para).

Drifting the Thread (as one does) one young GR officer on his first deployment to the border received very painful shrapnel wounds to his nether regions, which meant he rarely sat down and slept on his stomach for some weeks afterwards. However, he did go on to make full Colonel. However, one of his mates did get VC (I think that's what they said) during his stay in the colony. I guess it was a top secret, undercover operation in a girlie bar in Wanchai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old Duffer

I would NEVER salute Diane Abbott - whatever the penalty.
Also - many women "assume" their Husband's rank so I would never acknowledge them either…….

He gives a very belated truncated salute just as he enters the cabin. I guess he realized it was not really respectful and made amends. I don't think the pilots would have been able to see if he had returned the salute prior to boarding.

Exactly so O-D. (Remind me when I see you to tell you the tale of a Sgt crewman and a QA Captain in Hong Kong ....... there are some similarities!)

More recently I remember the privilege of meeting Johnson Beharry at Alrewas - although both in uniform, we were hatless in a tent so the "saluting" question didn't arise.

The meeting was enlivened (sic) by the then PM - D Cameron - repeately referring to him as "Sgt Johnson". Best sack that adviser/speechwriter Dave.......

I didn't know that Rambahadur Limbu VC had been at Kai Tak O-D. I do remember one Ghurka commissioned officer (as opposed to QGO) who lived in the mess for a while. He had an incredibly posh Sandhurst accent and must have thought we grammar school boys were terrible oiks!

You've missed the point, Arfur. You're not saluting her, but her appointment, and by extension the monarch.

Best I saw was early 70s in HQAFCENT. I was taking a German navy guy to do his arrival stuff and noticed him saluting often. I found out that at home they saluted everyone of a higher rank. As he was the equivalent of SAC (which I was), you can imagine where he came in the pecking order. There was an unwritten rule that you only saluted stars.

TTN,

Are you referring to Captain Maniprasad Rai by any chance? There was also Lt Gopal Bahadher Gurung and he and 'Mani' were Sandhurst trained. Mani's father had been the 'Gurkha Major' in the battalion sometime before.

O-D

I see your amazing memory for names has not yet deserted you O-D! In my case I regret I don't remember the chap's name, but he was certainly a product of Sandhurst.

I suspect he didn't as SHE might assume it was personal and not representational.

I'm with you Arfur. I would ignore Diane Abbott, give two fingers to Theresa May and will never sing the National Anthem when Charlie and Chlamydia get their chance . . .

Never thought I would say that, but I find I'm surprised to realise I mean every word.