Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

saluting a Prime Minister

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

saluting a Prime Minister

Old 26th Feb 2019, 10:11
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 516
saluting a Prime Minister

A real genuine question, and no politics please, but constitutional answers only.

Watching our Prime Minister on the television, each time she passes a serviceman she gets a salute.

Since the Queen is both Head of State, and Head of the Armed Forces, and since in theory (obviously not in practice) in our (unwritten) Constitution the politicians and the Armed Forces are very separate, should a Prime Minister be saluted?

staircase is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 10:32
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Norfolk swamps
Age: 52
Posts: 155
I'll refer to AP818 the Drill Manual. Section 2 Part 1 - 'Because of their link with the Sovereign, the following are to be paid some form of compliment: b. Governors and Ministers to whom the Sovereign delegates authority'
JagRigger is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 10:37
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 516
Well i guess that answers my question, thanks for the prompt reply.
staircase is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 10:55
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hereford UK
Age: 63
Posts: 3
I would have no difficulty giving any MP a salute right now - the two-fingered type.
MOSTAFA is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 10:57
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: waterskiing 2 miles behind the ac...
Posts: 12
Devil

Originally Posted by staircase View Post
Watching our Prime Minister on the television, each time she passes a serviceman she gets a salute.
How many fingers...?!
Training Risky is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 11:18
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 72
Posts: 3,755
I'll never forget my first salute. A newly commissioned APO, I was still 2 days short of my 18th birthday and I was walking down to the squadron on my first morning. I was saluted by a crusty old Regiment sergeant who was more than twice my age, and I very proudly returned the salute. When I got down to the squadron I told our 2 i/c that I had just had my first salute. He reminded me that when we salute we are saluting the appointment (and indirectly the monarch), not the individual. So I would have no difficulty in saluting a PM or minister of whatever political stripe - it would not imply any approval, or otherwise, of their policies.
Tankertrashnav is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 12:28
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 1,815
Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
So I would have no difficulty in saluting a PM or minister of whatever political stripe - it would not imply any approval, or otherwise, of their policies.
Spot on TTN! Had I only saluted officers I'd approved of, I'd have been in perpetual poo!

CG
charliegolf is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 12:45
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,869
When HM Forces salute the respect and courtesy is ultimately being shown to or for HM The Queen. Her Majesty confers and delegates this honour on named individuals through commissioning scrolls, governorships, Secretaries of State, some Lords & Members of Parliament and even a few bishops if they have been appointed to the Privy Council.

Incidentally, Diane Abbott was appointed to the Privy Council in Feb 2017, so quite a high bar.
Just This Once... is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 12:48
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by JagRigger View Post
I'll refer to AP818 the Drill Manual. Section 2 Part 1 - 'Because of their link with the Sovereign, the following are to be paid some form of compliment: b. Governors and Ministers to whom the Sovereign delegates authority'
Until I read this I was always of the impression one saluted only holders of the Queen's/King's Commission. My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.
alwayslookingup is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 13:07
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Yearning for sun and sea
Age: 78
Posts: 247
In Gib many years ago, when the destroyer pens were still in use, I bumped into an old school friend who was on board one of HM ships and invited for drinks in the wardroom. On leaving and at the foot of the gangway, I received a very smart salute from himself and the OOW..
On other occasions and elsewhere on other ships I have seen guests receiving the same courtesy on leaving.
GANNET FAN is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 13:18
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Central UK
Posts: 289
[QUOTE=alwayslookingup;10400900 My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.[/QUOTE]
Nor wearing a hat!
meleagertoo is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 13:19
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Central UK
Posts: 289
My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.
Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?
meleagertoo is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 13:52
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: France
Posts: 24
But surely he is ?
VictorSR is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 14:15
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tennessee - Smoky Mountains
Age: 51
Posts: 1,599
Originally Posted by alwayslookingup View Post
Until I read this I was always of the impression one saluted only holders of the Queen's/King's Commission. My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.
I don't believe the President is required to return salutes (which are required by regulation), even though he is the Commander in Chief. However, Ronnie, having been a junior officer in the US Army during WW2, thought it embarrassing not to return the salute. He therefore instituted the practice (note practice or custom, rather than regulation). Since then, it's been a faux pas not to return salutes. Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:

Roadster280 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 16:37
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
Posts: 5,269
I always understood that,in the US, the junior remained at the Salute untilit was acknowledged by the superior. Thus, hat or no hat, the superior released the junior from the salute posture.

Possibly I’m wrong, of course!
MPN11 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 16:52
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1,252
Just be guided by when a gentleman would raise his hat (if such was still the fashion).

For those not strictly eligible to receive a salute, to do so is a matter of common courtesy.

.......... and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!

Old Duffer
Old-Duffer is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 17:05
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 63
Posts: 1,150
Originally Posted by Roadster280 View Post
I don't believe the President is required to return salutes (which are required by regulation), even though he is the Commander in Chief. However, Ronnie, having been a junior officer in the US Army during WW2, thought it embarrassing not to return the salute. He therefore instituted the practice (note practice or custom, rather than regulation). Since then, it's been a faux pas not to return salutes. Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np7lObaDiBk
As was the late George H Bush, a junior officer in the USN during WW2 who followed Ronald Reagan as President.
air pig is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 17:16
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Location: Location!
Posts: 1,850
Originally Posted by GANNET FAN View Post
In Gib many years ago, when the destroyer pens were still in use, I bumped into an old school friend who was on board one of HM ships and invited for drinks in the wardroom. On leaving and at the foot of the gangway, I received a very smart salute from himself and the OOW..
On other occasions and elsewhere on other ships I have seen guests receiving the same courtesy on leaving.
I would expect nothing less, on arrival and departure.

Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?
Originally Posted by VictorSR View Post
But surely he is ?
I see what you did there....

Jack
Union Jack is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 17:35
  #19 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,606
We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission and by extension as stated above.
Pontius Navigator is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 17:49
  #20 (permalink)  

Gentleman Aviator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
Age: 70
Posts: 3,379
O-D

.......... and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!
I hate to draws swords with you, but is that not a fairly recent thing, emulating the cousins who always salute a MoH.

Don't recall it from my training - but I was only gutter entry after all (or maybe asleep in that lecture). TTN will know I'm sure.....

Pontius

We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission
Likewise I beg to differ. We were taught (even gutter entry!) that saluting was the equivalent of raising ones hat, on greeting ANY lady.

In my bachelor junior officer youth, my salute impressed a number of young ladies...........

(of course, what constitutes a lady is also up for discussion)
teeteringhead is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.