It's still fun!!
 

It strikes me that a huuuuuge amount of this forum is a recollection of old memories. And I love it for all that makes me smile - 30 years, 4 types, 9000+ hrs, and a voyeur to many of the stories therein.

I am just a little wary of 'it used to be so good'...

So to those who glance through these mumblings, thinking of joining our ranks...

It's still good!

Ok, it's different. Things have changed. But that's just life and normality. Nobody else will ask you to fly around with your arse on fire, thinking not how to fly, but how to use your platform to the best of its abilities to defeat the other guy.
Nobody else will give you the variety the forces still offer - no, it's not the same, but realistic expectations change as well.

How many of us would bother to subscribe to this forum if we didn't look back with a smile...?

So thank you guys for all the old stories.
Here's looking forward to the new ones to come.

I agree. It has been a lot of fun.

That said, I didn't think twice when turning down the extra 5 years beyond 55.

isaneng,

Is it fun? Was it EVER fun? You know, real fun as enjoyable and a pleasant way to spend your time?

I really do agree that this forum is full of tales of yore that really should be in Aviation history and nostalgia, and totally agree that anyone who WANTS to do it should certainly give it a go and it in no way was ever "so good back then!"

I have to be frank that I was bored by my second tour. I enjoyed the challenge of flying, but it was never fun, and you only got to do it for between 20 and 30 hours a MONTH (unless you were on an FTS, OCU or TWU, I'm talking front line FJ) anyway, so IT is not what defines your actual experience, Air Force rubbish and secondary duties and all that those things entail is your daily lot.

And even when I did do IT, you are dressed like a Michelin Tyre man, trussed up like a chicken, strapped tightly to a thoroughly uncomfortable and incredibly dangerous seat (never EVER felt comfortable about bang seats) placed in an ergonomic and thoroughly uncomfortable nightmare that is either too hot or too cold, and subjected to rather unpleasant G and negative G whilst trying to do mental sums and stay alive AND listen to that nagging voice in the back who was ALWAYS saying we were too late or too early, pointing in slightly the wrong direction or moaning about landing and taking off again constantly or not quite landing and repeating over and over.

Fun?

I had much better things to be doing that I classed as fun.

But it IS a challenge. Lord knows how often today you are allowed to do IT, unless you are someone like BV and flying a delight, 20 hours a month? That leaves a LOT of hours when you are NOT doing it.

But to anyone contemplating joining now, go for it, it was never better back in the day, but folk will always tell you it was, they were doing it in the late 60's...

Was it fun...in absolute terms, sometimes, definitely not always. In relative terms (relative to other jobs paying a similar wage)....yeah it was a total blast, wish I could do it again.

And I strongly suspect that is still the case.

At the risk of over analyzing it, it is probably much harder now than in my time, but ***** me have you seen what civvy street is like for today's youth!

The Old Fat One,

I think you'll find that Civvy Street for today's "youth" provides FAR more opportunity, choice, challenge, and options than in any previous time in history. I envy them a shed load, there was nothing to come close in the 40's/50's/60's and even 70's and 80's.

Back in the day? Pah! Today is the day.

A colleague of mine and myself just worked the Scampton Airshow 2017 Operational side (Blue Area), Runway Crossings, Crowd Line, etc!
Between us we have over 51yrs RAF experience (The RAF is not yet 100yrs old!)

Go Figure!!!!

You should have been a helicopter pilot. Seen the world, close up, little or no standbye, back in the bar every day. It was a breeze.

I figure "Wow, that's seven years more than me!"
:cool:

'A lonely impulse of delight'
10 tons of thrust in 5 inches of wrist movement.
'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe'

Getting airborne is always a blast in whatever form. We should count our blessings.

yeah sure, wtf do I know

I was never a pilot in the RAF, although in recent years I have enjoyed a certain amount of stooging around in a Cessna, which gave me a huge amount a pleasure.

But I genuinely loved my time as a nav. I used to sit down the back of a Victor looking at the NBS screen in which you could see your own reflection. I used to think - bloody hell, is that really me - have they really let me be part of operating this amazing machine?

Yes ok, maybe two hours of tanker tanker work over the North Sea, or 45 minutes of circuit bashing could be a bit tedious for those of us down the back, but overall I just loved it.

Like many things in life, you can never truly appreciate something until you no longer have it. Looking back, my time serving could easily fill one of those glossy recruiting brochures, all while getting paid to fly, but at the time it was harder to appreciate just how much fun and freedom of action we had.

Every generation says it was "harder in my day" but it wasn't harder, it was just different.

Yes ..... but ......forget the jets and try remembering what it was like when you were let loose with a 550hp big noisy engine up front and a big fan and you could actually FLY!!

Proone - as fareastdriver says - you just joined the wrong part of the RAf - helicopters was the way to go:ok:

There were times, as an Argosy co-pilot, when I wished I'd done as suggested by my boss at Leeming and gone rotary. Looking back, I'd have particularly liked to be an Army pilot.
Anyway, it all worked out in the end.
Given my life again, I'd still want to be a pilot but do it at 18 instead of 23.

prOOne, bet you were a laugh-a-minute in the crewroom. Sad comments; I'm sorry that you weren't able to enjoy things in the way that most of us did.

How quickly has this thread degenerated into historical reminiscences.

I am so pleased that the younger generation subscribe to this forum and am delighted that they find today's military flying both challenging and fun. I look forward to hearing their stories but I suppose discretion will limit the retelling of the more interesting tales😋

Fareastdriver and [email protected],

Alas while I take your point, you guys always looked far more comfortable and relaxed and dressed far more sensibly for work, I didn't fail or get chopped so made it all the way through to FJ. Sorry, cheap jibe and firmly tongue in cheek!

But you may indeed have a point. IF I had stayed in after my second tour, and that was a big IF, then I may well have considered Rotary. It looked more interesting and involved, and you always seemed more of a part of what you were doing in terms of effort and end result, rather than merely whooshing by in a flash and disappearing over the far horizon.

I was destined to convert to the Jaguar (heaven forbid!) or go AD with my existing fleet had I decided to stay, and I was still a little agin the AD folks after my experiences of many a QFI at Valley who had warned us against the Lightning (who on earth wants to blast off, fly in circles with your head stuck in a rubber bucket for 20 mins, hope you don't catch fire, and land again in a fuel driven panic HOPEFULLY on a runway and not the North Sea) and then of course we all feared going Vulcan, as one entire 228 OCU course around the time did when Spey problems grounded the fleet for a time. WE all wanted the new shiney beasts of Phantom, Harrier and Buccaneer, and when I was training RW was a tiny part of what we could look forward to, and even then we'd have had to fail at some point to get it, I got what I wanted, then.

jindabyne,

Very happy in the crewroom thanks, as I said I left WHEN I got bored and fed up, not after, I didn't hang around like many crew room doom and gloom merchants bemoaning their lot and whining about how it was "back in the day! And I certainly didn't want to become one of those VSO's who I think secretly shared my view of flying after a few tours and decided to become flying avoiding VSO's as soon as they could.

In fact as far as laugh-a-minute went, I was carpeted by a SO for "an irreverent sense of humour, particularly toward those in authority..." so afraid you're a bit off there, and I keep in touch with mates from those days, so no probs.

Don't be sad for me, I loved it at first, and as I said as soon as I stopped enjoying it I did something about it and left. It WAS a challenge, and I loved achieving it, but I grew bored and needed a new challenge, one that was outside of flying and the military.

As a non-pilot I still look back at my 29 years with many happy memories ... I just wish I could remember all of them ;)

(I do get the occasional flashback, though, and reach for a PostIt note ... before wondering why I'm reaching for a PostIt note.)

PrOOne - you didn't have to fail or get chopped to go rotary, on my BFT course there was one RW slot up for grabs and the guy who was penciled in for it failed his AIFG. That left a slot open and I bought a lot of beer for the Gp 3 Sqn Ldr who came to out role disposal:ok:

I knew FJ wasn't for me but I did get to fly in a Lightning in Cyprus courtesy of a mate from BFT when I was second tour Wessex there - what an awesome experience! But you are right, the horror stories from that fleet recounted at various drunken do's over the year convinced me that RW was definitely the way forward.

isaneng, perhaps the reason why there are more tales and reminiscences from those of us derided by digi-yoof as 'cold war warriors' is simply numerical?

There were more people in the RAF I joined than there are in the whole of the UK Armed Forces nowadays... Plus rather more RAF airfields and aircraft than there are today.

But with some RAF pilots not even being taught aerobatics these days, I can't accept that it's still quite the 'fun' you assert.

pr00ne, I'm sure that you and your colleagues dreaded being posted to Vulcans - quite understandable after making it to fast-jets. But after being chopped from the Bucc, the 3 years I had on the Tin Triangle in the late 1970s included perhaps the best quality of life in my entire career!

BEagle,

In fairness my early V-Force phobia was purely out of ignorance. From what I saw later I can understand how you felt, especially after escaping from 237OCU, THAT place had quite a reputation!
My fears were, again, entirely 4FTS QFI driven, when I went through Valley the V-Force was still seen as hour after hour sat on alert with mind numbing high level stuff while Lord knows how many Navs down the back did whatever it was they did!

From what I saw and heard later my concerns were unfounded, and I can understand your feelings toward your tour.

[email protected],

Yes yes, you keep telling yourself that! No, seriously, I was talking purely from a Valley perspective, we were determined NOT to go anywhere but FJ, and if we DID go anywhere else then we HAD failed!

BFTS, and of course I am talking of an era when everybody did BFTS, was a very different matter, apart from ME of course... NOBODY wanted that!

At RAFC, I think that perhaps only one of my course genuinely wanted to fly ME. He had a valid reason - his father had flown Halifaxes and he wanted to follow as closely in his footsteps as he could.

Once upon a time at Brawdy, after one particularly demanding day of wet Welsh Wx during a LL formation session, one of the Flt Cdrs, a really nice chap with a fine sense of humour, was busily making himself a bacon butty and happened to remark "Well if you don't fancy this business, you can always volunteer to go to helicopters". He had a sly grin on his face as he continued with his culinary efforts.

Next day there were 2 less students in the crew room. A couple of them had been to the Boss to ask for helicopter postings. He said that he could arrange that PDQ; they just had to clear, pack their bags and leave the next day. For Finningley..... "You'll have to train as navigators first".

:ok:

I had a bit of both.

I was among the last to learn to fly on pistons followed by being among the last to do their AFS on the Vampire. My antique career followed by being sent off to Valiants, (Three choices, Victors Valiants or Vulcans). By pure good fortune I was, probably because I was attested in Rhodesia, not sent to Main Force but to tankers.

The first year was miserable. I was crewed up with a captain who was the reverse of what we know now as CRM. The next captain, Fred Jones, was completely the opposite and I had a great time flying around the world refuelling other aircraft at Queeny's expense.

However the thought of spending my life in the structured system of Bomber Command did not appeal to me at all and I was trying every way to get out of it. As far as I could see I was going to be in the V.Force for the rest of my twelve years.

Then the Valiants were grounded and the Air Secs were loaded with loads of pilots that had to be posted, somewhere. Borneo had blown up and there were rotary pilots out there who were due to come home and that was the Godsend. I, with several others were sent to Tern Hill to learn how to fly from 0 to 120, instead of 120 to M.09.

I was the best move in my whole life.

Allofasudden I was in charge of my aircraft. I made the decisions as to where it was going, what it was doing and how it was done. There were no senior officers looking over your shoulder and everybody was glad to see you.

Nothing changed for the next 43 years both military and civil.

Re rotary/fixed wing banter - one of our tanker captains tried for a tour on helicopters. Got through Tern Hill and OCU but didnt make it through squadron conversion. Returned to tankers where he continued to be a very professional pilot and an excellent captain. No doubt there were ace helicopter pilots who would never have made it flying a 4 jet and running a crew.

Different strokes

I still think of myself as young although the body puts me straight on that from time to time. I still have fun flying, although it's now confined to AEF and cadets. I hope that I convey that sense of enjoyment and yes, fun, to them.

Regards to you Jenkins, I can't imagine you ever losing that roguish twinkle!

As one of those aviators from bygone days, and only ever a private pilot, my 23 years in the RAAF left me with many great memories. Having maintained various aircraft for 12 years, including having shared several years with RAF ground engineers at RAAF Base Edinburgh (South Australia) I trained as a C130A Flight Engineer, later also C130E and H models as well as B707 when the RAAF acquired that type. Many hours were spent in the company of some great crews, quite a few of whom I shared the flight deck with in my later civil F/E career. The time honoured banter between the fast pointy thing drivers and the rest, you know, rotary wing, trash haulers and feet wet folk was almost always friendly. Having been grounded (medical) a few years back has been a bitter pill to swallow. I do enjoy PPRuNe, except when the forum discussion gets hijacked by people who used it only as a "whinge tool". Thanks to all those who can keep a smile on their face, and mine, despite the occasional gripe we all sometimes feel.

No doubt there were ace 4 jet pilots who would never had made it making instant decisions and changing the game to suit the situation.

And we don't have crews to run on helicopters??????????? Not seen a SAR crew in action then? Or a Chinny crew for that matter?

Sounds like an average AAR trip to me....

Anyway, why dig in when you can check in?

Now we ALL know that no doubt there were ace RW and ME who would never had made it to FJ (Group 1 or whatever it was called in your particular day) as they got chopped...

As I said earlier - I didn't get chopped:E:E

I read extracts from a book written by a second generation senior Royal Air Force Officer. His father was Commandant of the Towers and he (the son) retired as a G.C.

In his book he described a posting in Scotland where he said that the MQ were little different to those on the local council estate.

Three wives of former very senior officers wrote in similar terms in their book entitled "Living in the Slipstream: Life as an RAF Wife", the forward to which was written by the Duchess of
Cambridge.

Without overseas postings, what does the Royal Air Force offer recruits which is not offered by the Army or Royal Navy?

The Army has attack helicopters. The Navy will soon (once again) have fast jets and helicopters.

Of course for those with the requisite flying skills, flying Royal Air Force war birds is going to be fun, but for those who do not, what kind of career can they look forward to?

My late step mother was an RAF Officer stationed at Northwood during the Falklands War. She enjoyed it and did well, she was promoted at the end of it. What role did the R.A.F. play in that? Attempting to destroy a runway? Running out of fuel and being forced to land in Brazil?

Once the new RN aircraft carrier is fully operational and is capable as part of a fleet of deploying on exercises in all the oceans, the role of the R.A.F. will shrink further. Who needs air to air refuelling when one has a floating runway close by?

Apologies for being cynical about the future of the service, but with defence cuts likely to continue, the high costs of maintaining the Royal Navy will have to come from somewhere.

roving,

Oh dear!

I suggest that you go away and read up on the Falklands, the RAF role in the Falklands, the operation of the F-35B Lightning in the UK military, the part that the RAF will play in embarked ops and finally, the range of possible employment in the modern day RAF, then perhaps you will be able to address this display of woeful ignorance...

[email protected],

I know, of COURSE you didn't! And, as I said earlier, am only joshing, and have tongue firmly inserted into cheek...

In the 1970 we used to refuel at shiny RAF bases going to and from N.I. or exercise areas. The engineers would look in horror at the trails of mud our wheels were leaving and a similar amount on our boots.

We didn't wear medals but if we had there would have been a phalanx of GSMs, some with a bar or two. Occasionally a DFC or AFC would have been earned. We would suffer the condescending smiles of the shiny jet pilots of Fighter and Bomber Command, now known as Strike Command.


Who hadn't fired a shot in anger since 1945.

pr00ne,

Royal Navy a 'laughing stock' with three quarters of its warships out of action and 'struggling to protect British citizens'

Girls, girls!! Stop the squabbling!!!