No chance! I'm enjoying this. There's lot's more to come if it continues.

moi aussi - the day the banter stops will be a sad one indeed.;)

and I knew at least one SK pilot who never made captaincy so went off to fly GR4 where he had a Nav to tell him how to fly :E

Vietnam, mate went along on a F-100 (two seat) strike mission for a ride. Really impressed and cool he thought as an Army Bell 47 driver, having only Winjeel FW experience to go by. He then took the F-100 driver for a ride in his 47, who then thought RW was really cool. Green grass....?

Hearsay ?!

But yes it did - an excellent one. The few naysayers on here are well-voiced, with their own specific reasons. I prefer the views of the large and silent majority that went through successfully; a few hundred of whom will meet again in December.

jindabyne,

Of COURSE hearsay! I was never on Buccs. But it WAS a reputation it had for a while and I heard it from a lot of folk who WERE on it, some for not very long...

Al-bert,

A Nav who knew how to fly? He/she must have got quite a way through pilot training before being chopped then?

roving,

Oh please! When I said go away and educate yourself I didn't mean that Tory rag! That article has been rubbished in numerous places soI won't repeat the inaccuracies, falsehoods and sheer lack of understanding and knowledge that riddle the defence articles in it...

Precisely.

Banter
 

Totally agree Crab !!!

If it's not fun, there's no point doing it (unless one is on short finals to a pension point!). Much as my job is an awfully long way from the sharp end, there are some people in civvy street who would jump at the chance to hop into a turbine helicopter more or less at a time of their choosing, and fly whatever profile they might wish to practise including low level, formation, mountains etc. Same with Tutor flying - how many people get to fling an aerobatic aircraft around the sky as often as they want, without paying a penny for the privilege? Far from punchy but it still has a certain allure.

In brief:

- More slots = greater chance of getting in
- Multi-engine
- Greater range of airframes (2x FJ, 4x RW, numerous ME)
- Greater scope to stay flying
- Higher flying rate
- Greater scope to restream (either from training or later in career)

TorqueOfTheDEvil,

But in the military you do NOT get to "hop into a turbine helicopter more or less at a time of their choosing" you do it, infrequently, when told to do it.

Again, nobody flings anything about in the military "as often as they want" it just does NOT work like that.

Can't argue with your list of reasons to choose the RAF though if you want to fly.

the pilot in question had a very good 'pair of hands', it was his captaincy decisions which left a little to be desired - I guess a well trained border collie could have replaced the Nav! :ok:

Err, you were never on SAR Helicopters then Pr00ne? Before the RAF shrinkage, when we got 'discovered' by VSO's and Career Officers with fewer pointy things left to fly/manage, SAR was about as un-military and un-constrained as you could get.

"hop into a turbine helicopter more or less at a time of their choosing"?

That's exactly what I did for 22 years. Only time we were 'told to do it' was when it was a life saving 'job', and we all looked forward to that. We who were lucky enough to be part of that backwater rather liked it that way.
Tell THAT to the yoof of today! :ok:

I went to the Squadron Association Dinner two weeks ago and I can report from the serving squadron members that Yes "It's still Fun". The chances for having a good time are somewhat fewer because there are fewer guys doing the job these days. Some years ago the C130K world was immense by today's standards having 60 odd airframes and by the mid 70s four squadrons worth of employment. I and the other well trained border collies on the Tac Support side of the airfield had the best of both worlds. Route flying was a means to get you into theatre and the challenge of low level ops in a different environment. Rhodesia, Ethiopia, The Middle East, Nevada and Alaska. Certain Captains would insist that you flew the aircraft for varying reasons and it all proved useful when recently training a Central African Air Force when the sole pilot instructor required assistance whilst changing seats. It has been said that a man whose job is also his hobby never does a day's work. Well that was my lot from 1976 till 2006. I'm not sure what that is in dog years.

210 ish ? Depends if you are a large breed ;)

* not 'dissing' Navs btw, it's just that the pilot in question (PIQ) needed barking at and occasionally biting when he had 'a good idea (AGI)! :*

Al-bert,

Nope, never on SAR helicopters, (never chopped...) a mere FJ type for my 2 tours. And now there is NOBODY in the military on SAR helicopters!

From what you describe it must have been a unique military existence, quite attractive actually, if you consider my original rather whinny post then the sort of flying you describe and the involvement and effort involved was what I was looking for. Apart from the shift work of course...

Yes,

I can confirm its still fun. Of course there are challenges and budgetary constraints hamper a lot of fun, but its still good.

There are still a lot of us who still serve who have been involved, directly or indirectly, in kinetic warfare. A far cry to constant training missions during the Cold War. That is not to say what happened then wasn't important, it was of course vitally important. Its not "fun", but its achieving tangible results.

A friend who has returned from observing OASC confirms that thankfully, there are a lot of people out there who are desperate to serve in the RAF.

I would say the Vs were the coolest way to see the world, at least seeing applied to drivers. Long legs 3 hours quicker than the Brit and shorter legs than the 10 giving more night stop opportunities. Coolest way to get to Singapore with no SLF or movers to worry about.

Hmm, better tell 84 Sqn to stop rescuing people then. And the Navy maintain SAR as a secondary role too.

And 5 flying tours in, 6 types as Captain, 30 odd types in the logbook and definitely having fun.

I drove to work today with not a cloud in the sky wondering how beautiful the UK would be from the sky then fought 2 Typhoons over the the North Sea for 45 mins keeping a watchful eye on the Lake District for a nice way to empty the tank if I had any fuel left. Is it fun? I could tell you however............. its my secret!!!!!!!

Even better on tankers. I was on a Valiant tanker squadron at Honington in company with two Main Force Victor squadrons. I would be overseas more often than at home. Being young, single and unattached I used to do my crew's trips and all the expectant fathers, sick lame and lazy trips too.

The poor sods who were in Flying Training with me who had been 'specially selected' for Victors could only get one Lone Ranger a year.

I flew the routes again as a contract helicopter pilot. Slightly more northerly as BA fly over Russia but this time the company were paying: business class.

PN,

I was not very happy with my posting to Vulcans, initially. However, you are absolutely correct in what you say and, after a few months, I had a great time (especially in Akrotiri!)

Bill

'It's still fun?' try telling the rotary crews that whilst they're flying around the Caribbean delivering aid, helping people, far from the long handled screw driver. 😉

Bill, I think the initial posting was a shock to many.

I WAS NEARLY chopped at Cranners, when I told my BFT Sqn Cdr (Richardson?) that I only wanted to fly helicopters. "Wrong attitude, should've joined navy etc" thrown at me, so I lied and said "of course, what I really mean is Jaguars" which hadn't actually arrived yet! Actually, my only motivation for joining the RAF was to fly Mountain Rescue Helicopters, as I then thought of them - I was a keen climber/mountaineer. I realised my mistake on day one at Cranners but stuck it out, paid the price of two SH tours - Germany tick VG, N Ireland not quite so, but got the medal (unlike any 'mere FJ types' at the time...!) and then 22 great years in a select club that might as well have been run by the Salvation Army - although discipline and bull**** might have been more onerous if it had been. That only got ruined when the VSO's found that their train set was shrinking at an alarming rate and SAR got up-ranked so that instead of the whole SAR Wg being commanded by one Wg Cdr and two Sqn Ldrs (for nine flights with Flt Lt OC's) it then became SAR Force, which required a Gp Capt, three Wg Cdrs and six Sqn Ldrs to command six flights (we lost three flights as part of the 'improvements) - and as you say, it's now civilianised (in UK at least). It was, indeed, too good to last, but I was fortunate to get 22 years of the best of it! :ok:

[QUOTE]But in the military you do NOT get to "hop into a turbine helicopter more or less at a time of their choosing" you do it, infrequently, when told to do it.

Again, nobody flings anything about in the military "as often as they want" it just does NOT work like that.[QUOTE]

It does actually. Maybe not in your world (strange how you don't seem to know everything despite having done 2 FJ tours ;) ) but I am lucky enough to be in that exact situation.

We 'had' to do things for the Army and others for about 15% of the time. For the rest of the flying task we just used them as an extension of our social life.

The RAF during the sixties and seventies in the UK. The greatest flying club in the world.

The other great thing for aircrew is the log book. You have many memories but the log book serves as a reminder.

Some times it was not good at the time, often in retrospect it was what they whole job was about. Just one - leave finished at midnight Friday. Got home from holiday in France and phone ringing at 1630. At 0600 the following morning west of Rockal. Still remember 37 years later.

TorqueOfTheDevil,

No it does not! How many hours a month do you fly? You don't do as you're told? You get to fling an aeroplane around the sky when YOU want and as often as you want? Whose military are you in?

My tours were a LONG time ago, and it didn't work like that then either.

Most of the times that I got airborne I flung it around the sky as often as I wanted and when I wanted.

jindabyne,

I'm sure you did. No training objectives, no Flight Commanders ticks, no OTT within 30 seconds for you then?

But my original, admittedly trivial, point was that you don't do it when you want to and as often as you want to. You do it infrequently and when you're scheduled to do it.

From your posts in this thread pr00ne, one wonders why you suffered it for as long as you did.

melmothtw,

I didn't suffer, I left when it ceased to be a challenge, when the trivia and the naff outweighed the fun and I rather lost my interest. I wasn't going to hang around and be a crew room whiner, so I cut and ran. I was also aware that I would be f**king dangerous with that mindset so it was time to go and do something else.

Something (body) tells me you left before you were pushed.

That said, you've now become more than tiresome, so, as is said elsewhere, I'm out.

jindabyne,

Er, the exact opposite actually. Bye

You were pushed before you jumped?

Mil-26Man,

Ha ha!

No.

Can the thread get back on track please?

Preferably without trolling.

Posts and stories from our current serving military colleagues here on PPRuNe are always welcome, and are always encouraged (all OPSEC considered).


Give us more! I suspect you all make your own fun just as we did when things aren't as fun ...