BBMF Grounded
 

Breaking BBC News

Lincolnshire breaking news: Latest updates - BBC News

Skew gear failures as happened during WW2?

Happy to see that the BBC are down to their usual sloppy standard of reporting with film of the Blenheim flying with Spitfires at Duxford - even their website report has a photograph of the Canadian Lancaster rather than the BBMF aircraft.

"Engine issue grounds Battle of Britain Memorial Flight planes"
...
"A Lancaster bomber, two Hurricanes and three Spitfire planes are all affected by the problem.

The BBMF has three other Spitfires with different engines which are currently unavailable for other reasons."
...
"The problem is "related to the Merlin engine" - which powers aircraft including the Spitfire, Lancaster and Hurricane - but "affects all current and serviceable display aircraft", the BBMF said."


Engine issue grounds Battle of Britain Memorial Flight planes - BBC News

Nothing on the BBMF website or Facebook page, at least not at the moment.

They probably failed some dreamt-up emissions test.

Have the BBMF had a MAA audit recently?

Yes, someone probably didn't have the 'bow-tie' up to date or their 5 main RTL in the right order.:ugh:

Sounds like Skew Gear problem that is critical to magnetos.... nobody likes the sound of silence when airborne other than glider pilots.....better safe than sorry and in all likliness a quick (:E) tear down, NDT / Dye test - tick - rebuild - display and back for tea and medals!

Hope they get back up in time for Scampers!

In wartime conditions, I doubt whether any Merlin had a long life, so to keep these engines (and aircraft) going for a further 70 years beyond that is wonderful.
Sad that these issues seem to be occurring one after the other, the Lanc being grounded for what seems years, now this.

Did the problem (which more technical minds than mine) identify as skew gears come to light due to the recent crash of a Spitfire? We also had the Mustang prang at Duxford - was that skew gear related?

Come back when all is fixed, BBMF, we miss you!

One Griffon Spit and the Dakota are unservicable at the moment I believe.

IIRC they have 4 Merlin Spits (II, V, IX and XVI) and 2 Griffon ones

An event I'm organising in September was expecting a Dakota flypast but the BBMF has said the Dak is u/s for the rest of the season. Shame.

Are these skew gears in the magneto drive or the camshaft drive?

PDR

Come off the cam at right angles as a quill into the Mag - small shaft - Alex Henshaw wasn't a fan of such failures, as per this incident, so a quick grounding and Dye / NDT is well worth the effort in my mind, especially for the BBMF crews flying them and looking after them.
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/researc...e-trouble.aspx

The Merlin camshafts are all driven by a combination of spur gears and bevel gears. A bevel gear on the main crank drives 2 vertical shafts, one lower one upper. The upper vertical shaft drives another bevel gear which in turn drives 2 angled shafts, one for each of the 2 cylinder head banks.

Both magnetos (one on either side of the engine) are driven from a lateral shaft which is driven from the upper vertical drift shaft by a pair of skew (helical) gears. I believe that both magnetos share their drive from just one set of the skew gears.

Does this help...?

http://www.avrosystems.co.uk/bomber/...earsmodded.jpg

For those with a strong constitution, Jeremy Vine is covering this on his Radio 2 show at 12:00...
If the trailer is anything to go by, it will be complete BS.
He was droning on about them being unairworthy, decrepit, old, not maintained, time for them to go etc.
Blood boiling now...

If the reason that the BBMF Merlin engined fleet has been grounded relates to a specific Rolls Royce Merlin problem, does this have knock on consequences for other Merlin engined aircraft?

Further is the "problem" a Rolls Royce Merlin one or does it also apply to Packard manufactured Merlins?

Let us hope that whatever the problem is it is sorted soon.

Ah, great image. A picture paints...

You can see the lateral magneto drive shaft driven at 1.5 x engine rpm are driven by a single pair of helical (skew) gears - therefore a single point of failure for both mags.

The only other helical gears are to drive the fuel pump from the lower vertical drive shaft.

Or is it even a problem related to the contractor that overhauls the Merlins for BBMF....rather than an intrinsic Merlin (or Packard) design issue...??

Hopefully a resolution will be found soon.

I suspect that's more likely to be the issue for it to have such a sudden and widespread effect over such a range of merlin marques.

PDR

More than likely a QA issue with engine overhauler or parts supplier that they use. Not aware that other aircraft are grounded..

I only heard the last few minutes of the segment on the Jeremy Whine show, but who on earth was that daft Epstein woman? Top marks to Geoff Brindle for keeping his cool when faced with such a ridiculous debate.

What exactly is the issue? Still nothing on the BBMF website, despite very strong interest in the situation...

The silence is another indicator that it could be a contractual/QA/procedural issue which could well end up in a court...

PDR

Wouldn't be the same industrial group responsible for the maintenance (or lack thereof) of the technically sophisticated Air Cadet Glider fleet perhaps?

Err... No...:=

Thought not. There's been no hint of legal action in that particular mess. How DO they get away with it?

SERCO

SERCO was always controversial. In the late 80's early 90's while I was working at MoD many Contracts were market tested and many MoD contracts were lost to SERCO. There was a lot of suspicion at the time of how SERCO were managing to win so many Contracts. SERCO brand starts just before all the market testing, and Mrs Thatchers privatization of many Government services, on the board of directors at SERCO - a Mr Dennis Thatcher!!

Related ??...............or just a co-incidence ?

Arc

Red on, green on: Conclusion
 

Jump! Lets wait for facts

No, we like the scream of the vario telling us we are in a 10-knot climb or the sound of a glider flying fast, either between thermals or along a wave bar. :)

Please confine Air Cadet comments to the relevant thread, chaps/chapesses/chapthings...

RETRO TRACK & AIR (U.K.) Ltd would seem to be the company responsible for the overhaul of BBMF Merlins.

I also found this 'official' BBMF statement:

One of the engines in a Hurricane....:confused:

I take BEagle's point, but look at it this way:

1. BBMF has several Merlin engines;
2. A fault has been found in one of them;
3. That engine is in a Hurricane.

Simples...

Shuttleworth now has three Hurricanes resident'. Are they similarly affected?

Having been fortunate enough to visit Retro on a couple of occasions a few years ago (2010), I'd be surprised if they're at fault, as I found them to be a highly professional, well-motivated and enthusiastic bunch.

You could always try Andrew Dixon who has access to a privately owned Dakota based at Dunsfold.


mark stott

Could always let the engineers get on with the job

Exactly, it all sounds completely blown out of proportion.... ie. on engine being torn down for overhaul or during inspection as part of overhaul, hairline crack or fatigue found on skew gear...(if it is indeed that) - so much easier to ground all engines and inspect all due to outcome of problem if one fails...

This is a standard AD equivalent with absolutely no real news, yes its a shame it has been found mid display season... but top marks for finding it whatever it is and pro actively doing something about it to keep the airframes and crew safe..

Its not really a story, but im sure some dufus will use it as tool to stop the tax payer trying to fund it!!

Surely if it all went quiet up front....no problem...i've seen Dunkirk and the engine out performance of even a Mk 1 Spitfire is just incredible......

Daily Mail reporting a problem with a Hurricane Merlin engine "pin"
The Lanc was recently overhauled at Duxford - surely would have been spotted unless overhaul didn't include 4x engines

'Just Jane' to the rescue again ?

Whatever the problem is better safe than sorry!