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Just because you think it's wrong doesn't make it a civil rights issue. There is no "right" outlined in the Bill of Rights or elsewhere that says there's a right to serve in the US military.

Oh my.
1. Your first "scientific fact" (regarding black IQ) is bunk and even if correct (which it is not) is irrelevant. It doesn't take a lot of IQ to serve in countless positions in the military.

2. The suicide rate of transgenders is some 50 times higher than the general populace. That's a scientific fact. Such mental/emotional instability in a highly stressful combat environment has a huge effect on service qualification.

And on the subject of "scientific justification to exclude" people from service, please inform us why this list of hundreds of medical conditions are "scientific justification to exclude" people from military service while transgenderism is not.

Anyway, that's a problem for America, maybe also Canada, UK, Australia... after all, they speak the same language, don't they ? so there should be something cultural in it.
Thanks God, they are not the only ones having a military - and because of THAT issue, it gives the enemy a reason to hate them. Remember, we are talking about war, not political discussions, and at war you don't discuss with people - if YOU consider them as a threat, or you hate them enough, then you try to blow them off - and they will do the same. That's the reason of wars - and if you win, then you are right by definition. Isn't it wonderful ?

Me I don't want to fight along ... well, those people. Nobody can force me to accept them as members of the same community than me - but I'm more than ready to confront them on the other side.
I'm not American... so can I still think my way in my country, or will some sort of extra-territorial justice try to block me ?

Gosh, it's just like being back in Hartlepool during the Napoleanic wars...

I gave you the link to the wikipedia article on "race and IQ". Seems like you deliberately chose to ignore science and research and stick with your bigoted and ignorant views.

US Army average IQ of new enlisted men is 105. Average IQ of population as a whole in USA is 99. I strongly disagree with your assertion that many jobs in the military do not require much intelligence.

It is true that transgender people have high suicide rates - but that is because they are excluded from mainstream jobs and society by people who share your views. Many end up as sex workers and drift into downwards from there. More enlightened countries (Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand) recognise this and have strongly encompassed non discrimination policies - including in the military - without any problems whatsoever.

Transgenders might be more accepted here in Western Europe but that
doesn't mean that they are less likely to kill themselves, 1 in 4 have at least tried to kill themselves at least once, 62% have had suicidal thoughts.
https://www.zelfmoord1813.be/sites/d...sheet_LGBT.pdf

There are certainly many external reasons (transfobia within society,discrimination, and problems within their close personal circles) to explain these huge numbers but an important part seems to be coming from systemic psychological problems.

Personally I believe that if you are declared healthy and fit there should be no reason that prevents anyone from serving in the military, there are more groups that have specific heightened risks that could be problematic but with the right screening and guidance these issues can be dealt with.
In a free country cases are dealt with on a person to person base, there is no such thing as a group that can be excluded from the get-go.

Simply raising the subject raises the rate of attempted suicide, according to the article. Stigmatising TG people by rejection raises the rate of attempted suicide.

Well done the 'inclusive' president. 👏

Well, with that attitude I'm not sure they'd want to be a member of the same community as you either. I'm quite sure I wouldn't.

My oh my oh my. I read your cited article. You apparently did not. In the FIRST paragraph it states:

Currently (there) is no non-circumstantial evidence that these differences in test scores have a genetic component.

You have clearly assumed that because the article has the title "race and intelligence" that the article supports your racism. In fact, it does the opposite.

Now on the subject of "bigoted and ignorant views", please do go on about the proven and tested intellectual inferiority of the black race and continue to prove who in this conversation is "bigoted and ignorant."

Oh my. Blacks, gays, women, were ALL "excluded from mainstream jobs and society" for generations until very recently. And until recently they all had high suicide rates like transgenders. Oh wait. No they didn't!! Your conclusion is false. Utterly so.

And what's the suicide rate of transgenders in these "enlightened" countries? Essentially the same. The data all points in the same direction. Transgenderism is a mental/emotional condition. Hormone treatments and radically invasive surgery do not treat the underlying mental/emotional issues.

If you're going to cite "science" to buttress your points, you really need to first understand science. And with that you need to read the actual data instead of making assumptions based on what you want the data to be.

Since you appear to enjoy reading wiki articles, read the ones on "Observation Bias" and "Confirmation Bias". There are several.

Recceguy,

In the US Military, in the old days, Gays were serving honorably and did so for generations....and no one knew of their being homosexual.....yet they earned Medals for Gallantry in combat.

How many did we serve alongside and never remotely suspected they were Gay due to the manner in which they served.

I suppose it can be the same with the transgendered.

Fascinating.

Essentially every one of the conditions cited in the article that "increases suicide risk" existed in blacks, gays, and most of those conditions for women for generations until quite recently. And yet the suicide risk of those groups was nowhere near what it is for transgenders.

And a blog on Huffpost? Really?

Hmmm. So every IQ measurement in these studies is relative to the cognitive abilities of a European 16 year old. So the "average" person thinks like a 16 year old! And a EUROPEAN one at that!! And the "average" African (and American Indian!) thinks like an 11 yr old European and the "average" Chinese thinks like a 17 year old European. Isn't it interesting that an urban culture is the baseline and non urban cultures have "lower" IQ, while the super urban cultures in Asia have a "higher" IQ.

And since this discussion is about serving in the military, Europeans are by nature "average" soldiers, Africans "below average" soldiers, and Chinese "above average" soldiers. Yah shur.

Sorry KenV I wished to amend the post hence the deletion. My apologies.

You could watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeUU9U9uY1I

Or this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx17P_O2LI

and possibly conclude that both nature and nurture account for IQ, and, achievement.

With regard to transgender, the experience of being in a body that does not conform with one’s perception of what one should be, has to be somewhat disturbing and difficult for that individual in society in general, but in all probability more so in the Military.

The Military has a duty to the country to try in the most cost effective way to recruit those most suitable for the purpose they are intended for, with the least disruption to it’s running. Mental stability being one quality they look for.

As a complete aside Bradley Manning has probably not been the most suitable example of transgenders in the Military.

I agree completely. And the suicide data appears to support that. And my guess (and this is pure conjecture) whatever mental condition causes one to feel that inside they are different than outside also causes other mental/emotional instabilities independent of the society they are in. On what is this opinion based? There are societies that have accepted transgenders for generations and that even officially recognize three genders. The suicide rate of transgenders in those societies is essentially the same.

I agree completely. Along that line, most women probably make lousy soldiers. The US having an all volunteer military, those women self-select out of the military and into a different field. The same with gays. Those gays that would make lousy soldiers tend to select different fields. Those that join tend to do just fine. Since transgenderism cannot be tested for, if a transgender person selects the military, they are an atypical transgender person and has been seen in actual experience, they tend to do fine (Manning being an egregious exception.) But if we give transgenders a special incentive to join the military by offering free hormone treatment and surgery, suddenly the calculus has changed and we get transgenders joining for the entirely wrong reason.

He/she/it/they are a very sad case. The former commander in chief choosing to commute his/her/its/their sentence is sadder still.

That stopped being true during the Clinton Administration, and IMO slightly before that. I know what's on your class ring, Ken. ;) Oscar Victor.

Your reasoning is quite bizarre! I never once asserted that black people are less intelligent for genetic reasons (though that is debatable). I just stated the indisputable fact that black people score lower on IQ tests than Caucasians, just as NE Asians score higher than Caucasians. Black people have a number of other indisputable physical differences from Caucasians and Asians in every physical and intelligence test - higher testosterone levels in males, different muscle structure, smaller heads, curly hair, wider nostrils, and SURPRISE black skin!! Asians too are different from us - higher cranial capacity compared to body mass, less muscle density. These are differences that have evolved over thousands of years and are as a result of different levels of Homo Sapiens / Neanderthal genes (Africans are 100% homo-sapiens, Caucasians are about 90% Homo Sapiens with 10% Neanderthal, whereas Asians have about 15% Neanderthal). It is not "racist" to discuss established scientific fact. It is only "racist" when societies discriminate against persons who are different because of these reasons. Which is exactly what you are doing by advocating discrimination against tg people!

There is a reputable study that shows those who are transgender are twice to three times more likely to join the military as heterosexuals.

Why? Some perhaps because it allows them to escape from their home life and persecution. However for many it is an attempt to retreat from the truth and attempt to be the most masculine they can be. Which why why you also find a higher proportion in the Marines, Seals etc. But eventually you realise that you can't hide from yourself.

I served 24 years in the RAF then 13 years with a military multinational before I admitted the truth to myself. I think in retrospect I was clinically depressed most of the time - but very good at my job. For most of that time I knew I was living a lie and, undoubtedly, was less effective than I could have been. It was the RAF who lost out as much as I did through those years of lies.

In the same years that I saw many excellent officers and airman being thrown out for being gay I was also investigated when they found out I had been buying TG informationL leaflets and books. They allowed to stay because of my skills but I was warned I had to abandon reading such materials and I would never be promoted. WhT was even more crushing was the attitude of my superiors, including those who I considered my friends who were "in the loop" and subsequently shunned me. Even years later on a tour outside the branch my OC took me aside and told me he did not know why, but he had been told that my 1369 was at best to read "Unlikely to become fit" for promotion.

In short, I have walked the walk, and know the pain, and would like to meet face to face anyone who would claim I should never have been allowed to serve Nd should have been thrown out.

If during the time you served, had there been an allowance to pay for all the associated costs of transitioning, would you have taken advantage of it?