Trumps Bars Transgender From Military
 

Does it matter what Trump twits? Nobody takes Trump seriously. Everything he announces on Twitter is widely ignored by all but his most myopic supporters, and will be erased, reversed and forgotten in a few years. I doubt the US Military will actually enact the ban - it will cost far more than leaving the status quo.

I suppose you overlook the powers invested in the Office of President perhaps.

Don't fret over Tweets.....look at Executive Orders when issued.

Powers of the Presidency are not absolute but they are codified in law.

As a result, some are subject to challenge in Federal Courts to include right up to the Supreme Court.

Don't let TDS trip you up in thinking what the real situation is re the Powers of the Office.

You may not like him, you may hate his policies, but he is the President.

You missing Obama yet, SASless?

I guess it is a big fcuk off to those transgendered folk already in uniform, then. According to the press there a few thousand of them. Retired through ill health?

Yes....greatly missing Obama....like a bad case of Hemorrhoids....feels so good when they are gone.

I do wish someone would cancel Trumps Twitter Account as despite what he thinks....it does as much harm as good. Used better it would be of good benefit.

But then Trump would not be Trump would he if that were the case.

You have to admit....he is not a conventional politician as by the time one of them gets to the White House they know not to pick un-neccessary fights and stick to the script as much as possible. But....we have to accept he is not a conventional politician which means there is some good and some not so good that comes of that.

But with the Media and the Deep State....If Trump tweeted his administration had discovered a cure for Cancer....the headlines would be "Trump puts Doctors out work!".

The Obama Administration approved Transgenders serving openly in the Military but the DOD and Military Services have put a hold on that policy citing Studies needed to be done to determine policies, costs, etc.....perhaps Trump was stepping in and putting an end to the dilly dallying about by DOD and the Services.

There is more to all of this than what is in the Tweets I am sure....what....who knows!

News report in Australia this morning suggests that the plan will have come from senior military advisors with Trump being given the doubtful honour of announcing it.

I accept them in the military, I don't accept that the taxpayers should be on the hook for their surgery.

Hmmmm. Two comments:

1. For 7 1/2 years the Obama policy was identical to Trump's current policy. Where was the outrage then?

2. Trump said he'd let his military leaders decide and gave the job to Mattis to find out what his military leaders recommended. They made the decision. He has their back and Trump is making their decision law.

Get over it.

Here is what Medicare/Medicaid had to say about the Government paying for medical procedures......and it is pure government double talk after they say the Population affected by the situation is too small to be able to effectively determine the need/benefit of such surgery/treatment.

Now if that is for a population far larger than described in the DOD funded Rand Studies.....then perhaps there is a lot of hot air about a very small issue.

https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverag...aspx?NCAId=282

".....James Mattis, the defence secretary who is on holiday, was understood to have learnt about the decision after the president tweeted it......."

".....The Pentagon appeared to be caught off guard by Trump’s announcement, and deferred to the White House when reached for comment. "We will continue to work closely with the White House to address the new guidance provided by the commander-in-chief on trans individuals serving the military,” a spokesperson for the defense department said. “We will provide revised guidance to the department in the near future.”......

........An administration official fueled speculation over the president’s motives by suggesting that the shift was a political ploy that would force Democrats facing re-election in states won by Trump into complex culture wars.......

Just to add to the point about it being political, it has been commented elsewhere that Trump deliberately published his decision on 26th July - the anniversary of the day that President Truman signed Executive Order 9981 abolishing racial discrimination in the US armed forces.....

Just watched the BBC news, reported that trans gender folk are in/joining the military in much higher proportions than any other group...treatment/surgery is expensive.

It's not so much the things that The Donald does, it's the way he says it.

According the a Rand report, the US military spends upwards of $40 million a year on viagra, versus somewhere between $2m to $8m on treatments for transgender troops. Using cost as a reason is a red herring.

Viagra? In my days in the RAF we had no need of such a thing. In fact the Air Ministry shelled out thousands of pounds putting Bromide in our tea.

Did it work? :hmm:

If Eisenhower had reversed Truman's 1948 order to allow the integration of the US armed forces, would you have said: "For 3 years Truman's policy on blacks and whites in the armed forces was identical to Eisenhower's. Where was the outrage then?" That just makes no sense.

Did they make the decision? By all accounts, no one in the DoD had a clue that this was coming, and Mattis himself was on holiday.

I'd concur with that, West Coast.

On Trump's tweets...

Oh no they won't! They are already part of the written history of the Office of the President of the USA.

As for why the announcement? A pussy grab on a pretty marine that went awry maybe?

CG

People join the armed forces for various reasons, and the forces offer numerous incentives to recruit and retain the ones it wants. I'll just point the TG medical costs are an awful lot lower than the GI Bill College costs.

If the traitor Bradley Manning is a typical example of transexual personnel in the US military, then Trump and his top brass have made the right decision.

Their trainset, their rules.

Manning is one of reportedly thousands of transexual personnel in the US military, so no, not typical at all.

I think it's beginning to work now :E

Not that any non-TG person has ever done anything like that, no sir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...e_Soviet_Union

By the way, is America great again yet?

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...f-my-military/

"After President Trump’s surprise announcement Wednesday barring transgender people from serving “in any capacity“ in the military, one prominent transgender airman said he’s more determined than ever to continue serving in the Air Force.

“I would like to see them try to kick me out of my military,” Staff Sgt. Logan Ireland said in an interview with Air Force Times. “You are not going to deny me my right to serve my country when I am fully qualified and able and willing to give my life.”.......

https://mco-armytimes-prod.origin.ar...G3UHEYSGI4.jpg

ORAC

There's a societal payback to the GI bill, to the same degree the same cannot be said of taxpayers paying for an elective surgery.
To be accepted, don't expect more than what the rest of us get.

I remember the "old" days in the Army where Women served in non-combat roles and to the most part remained segregated from their male counterparts. I am also old enough to remember the ending of segregation by Race. In my time in the Army, merely being a Homosexual would get you bounced.

Times change, and often the US Military leads the way in those social issues.

It was the leader in de-segregation....because as a Military Organization it follows Orders given it by the Commander in Chief, in our case the President.

Every change in social issues the Military has taken, has had effects upon Unit Cohesion, Good Order and Discipline, general effectiveness of the unit, and financial cost. That is not debatable as it is a fact.

Also, overtime the Military has found a way to carry out its mission and in general has overcome those negative effects of social change but it takes time.

The Military is made up of individuals who come together to form well disciplined, organized, and effective Units with defined goals, missions, and standards.

There was resistance to de-segregation, acceptance of Gays and Lesbians, differing Religions, and in time this Transgender thing will be worked out.

In each change....Blacks were found to be just as able and effective Soldiers as Whites, Women were found to be capable, Gays and Lesbians too have found their place in the Military as is right and proper. So will the Transgendered of our country.

Trump's action is not going to stop that....it might very well act as a catalyst to hurry this along even if it is not his motive in doing what he has.

What we do need to see happen is our Military get back to what it exists for....protecting this Nation, preparing for Wars, and being a close knit organization where wearing the Uniform is a respected thing to do and is seen by all of our Citizens to be an honorable duty.

Change is never easy when it comes to social i issues but I have no doubt the Military will lead the way even though at times there is much difficulty in doing so.

What we cannot allow is for the Military to prevented from accomplishing its duties because of improperly administered change. Our Troops spend far too much time in non-Mission training and far too little time in preparing for their actual mission.

The US Army went from picking up cigarette butts on Police Call to having to sit through hours upon hours of "training" on social issues.

SecDef Mattis has gone on record about that problem.

It will be very interesting over the next few weeks and months to see how Trump's decision will be received by the Military itself. What will be more telling is how they implement that Decision once it is formally handed down to them to carry out.

The costs of surgery can be significant, but not all choose to do the final surgeries. We in the US military all had required training on the new Obama administration policy, how the transition would be done, and when the transition would be declared complete, and that we were to treat all with dignity and respect. A complex process with medical, psychology, the member and the commands involved. The "costs" can also include not being able to deploy while in transition, numerous medical screenings, and an imprecise transition period (up to 2 years I recall). The member could stop the process at any time. And yes the military was going to pay for everything.

If we are dedicated to genuine gender equality ....why do we not require Women to register for the Draft as we do of their Male Counterparts?

If we are going to have a double standard there....why should we not allow a double standard in other aspects of this?

Another issue to be considered....how does a Transgendered person fit into the definitions of those who must register for the Draft.....as Females do not?

Just as the Charlotte North Carolina City Aldermen decided...if one Self Identifies as a Female....he can use Female only facilities like restrooms, locker rooms, and showers.

Does that work for the Draft Registration?


http://www.transequality.org/issues/...sgender-people

Washington Post: Growing GOP backlash to transgender troop ban underscores Trump’s political miscalculation

Overheard at the Pentagon: "We're taking orders via Twitter now?"

The real impetus behind Trump’s snap announcement, via Politico’s Rachael Bade and Josh Dawsey:

“House Republicans were planning to pass a spending bill stacked with his campaign promises, including money to build his border wall with Mexico. But … insiders feared they might not have the votes to pass the legislation because defense hawks wanted a ban on Pentagon-funded sex reassignment operations — something GOP leaders wouldn’t give them. They turned to Trump, who didn’t hesitate. … (But) House Republicans were never debating expelling all transgender troops from the military.

‘This is like someone told the White House to light a candle on the table and the WH set the whole table on fire,’ a senior House Republican aide said in an email. ....…

While I empathize with the Sergeant, who has been serving, there are two major red flags going up here.


1. You don't have a right to serve. (But I am glad you are serving)
2. My military? No. Our military.


Sergeant, you've got an attitude problem called "it's all about me" that is correctable with a little leadership and counselling from a senior NCO. You won't be the first nor the last service member with that problem. Solution is rather simple.
You should report to the First Sergeant to get aligned with the reality of the needs of the service. Once you've done that, I'll make the following wager: if you're a good troop and a good NCO, First Sergeant will have your back for the duration of your time in service. (And your chain of command likewise).
What sounding off like this is called is "getting outside of your lane" and is the Michael New syndrome all over again.


Yeah. The Commander in Chief lacks style.

I WAS going to politely enquire whether Staff Sgt. Ireland started off as a man or a woman but perhaps not :uhoh:
I'm sure he'd have presented a formidable sight five hundred years ago charging with sword, spear or pike in hand.

500 years ago, he/she would have been branded a witch and burned at the stake. Who says there hasn't been progress?

Lone Wolf 50, since they don’t have like buttons, that I thought was a spot on post.

Staff was plenty gung ho, which was great, just a tad me my, as pointed out by LW. to get some rather expe

Does sound a bit as though it is possible ’some' join the military to get some rather expensive medical treatment done by the Government

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dunsford, issued a written statement today saying there shall be no change in DOD Policy re Transgendered Service Members until official guidance is received from Senior Authorities. He reiterated all US Military personnel would be continue to be treated with respect and within existing guidelines.

Seems clear enough to me.....that Tweets are not yet considered Official Policy Guidance which should be plain to even a dull third grader.

White House: Trump's tweets are 'official statements' - CNNPolitics.com

...dull third graders indeed.

Yes like I said....The Chairman issued a written statement....how much more official do you require on the matter?

You are at risk of losing your junior high graduation certification if you use CNN as a source.

Put in perspective the TG medical costs equates to just two golf trips by Trump to Florida. The US gets a benefit from the TG costs.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...on-us-military

See my post 2!

Just another Trump twit that will be ignored and forgotten when in a couple of days he twits something even more bigoted and foolish. The US President is laughing stock outside of US.

Yesterday some journalist asked the Commander of US Pacific Fleet whether he would nuke China if told to do so by Trump - a rhetorical and unfairly loaded question - but clearly intended to probe whether US military consider their CiC sane.