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USMC KC-130 down in Mississippi
Conflicting info so far. Reports of in-flight breakup and debris field of "five miles" - yet one picture at least shows what seems to be a fairly complete (if now flat) airframe. Too much smoke from this angle to see if cockpit still attached.
https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc...x-1080-600.jpg |
At least 16 people were believed dead after a military plane crashed in the Mississippi Delta on Monday, promoting an urgent rescue effort in one of the South’s most rural regions, the authorities said. Fred Randle, the emergency management director in Leflore County, Miss., said in a brief interview late Monday that officials thought at least 16 people had died in the crash. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeHywUeXR8 |
Sad indeed - conflicting early reports - in flight break up:
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/10/mar...t-5-fatalities |
Alan Hammons, an official at Greenwood Airport, told WNCN that the aircraft suffered a “structural failure” at 20,000 feet. The Clarion Ledger reported that the plane departed from Naval Support Activity Mid-South Base in Millington, Tenn.
WTF? |
A comment on facebook indicates the crashed airplane came from VMGR-452, a KC-130T unit operating from Stewart ANGB in New York state.
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Strewth
'Landed' inverted.....poor souls. |
Leflore (le-FLOR') County Emergency Management Director Fred Randle told local media late Monday that 16 bodies were recovered after the KC-130 refueling tanker spiraled to the ground into a soybean field about 85 miles (135 kilometers) north of Jackson.
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It was a KC-130T, was it in an AAR mission and were any other aircraft involved?
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1 Attachment(s)
The video in Post #2 (towards the end, at 1:30) seems to indicate an absence of fuselage forward of the wings.
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Originally Posted by Thaihawk
(Post 9827012)
A comment on facebook indicates the crashed airplane came from VMGR-452, a KC-130T unit operating from Stewart ANGB in New York state.
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16 crew in a tanker ? Doesn't quite add up...
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Originally Posted by bunta130
(Post 9827073)
Strewth
'Landed' inverted.....poor souls. Condolences to all with lost loved-ones. PDR |
ITV midday news were saying the FBI have started an investigation into the crash.
No mention of suspicious cause but perhaps just a belt and braces approach to cover all eventualities, RIP to those killed, thought and wishes to surviving familes. |
16 crew in a tanker ? Doesn't quite add up... |
Obviously, much too early to say much. But these days, catastrophic accidents to modern aircraft operated by first-tier operators are rare indeed, as is the variance between early and final casualty counts.
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A comment on facebook indicates the crashed airplane came from VMGR-452, a KC-130T unit operating from Stewart ANGB in New York state. Though the KC-130 refueling tanker took off from Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point in North Carolina, Marine Capt. John Roberts said the plane was under the command of the 4th Marine Air Wing, which is part of the Marine Forces Reserve headquartered in New Orleans. |
A statement from the Marine Corps Forces Reserve HQ:
The Marine aircraft that crashed Monday evening was a KC-130T from Marine Aerial Refueling and Transport Squadron (VMGR) 452, Marine Air Group-49, 4th Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Forces Reserve. The flight originated from Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, N.C., as the squadron was supporting a requirement to transport personnel and equipment from there to Naval Air Field El Centro, Calif. The crew and passengers consisted of 15 Marines and one Navy Corpsman. Equipment on board included various small arms ammunition and personal weapons. An Explosive Ordnance Disposal team is at the scene as a precaution in the interest of safety. The identities of the personnel whose lives were lost in this tragic accident are still being withheld to allow time for their loved ones to be notified appropriately. While the details of the incident are being investigated, our focus remains on providing the necessary resources and support to the family and friends of these service members as they go through this extremely difficult time. There were earlier news reports of another stop enroute, possibly Memphis, but I haven't seen this confirmed: CNN affiliates WDBD and WHBQ, citing officials they didn't name, reported the plane had stopped in Memphis, Tennessee. Video | FOX13 |
Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 9827597)
A statement from the Marine Corps Forces Reserve HQ:
https://www.dvidshub.net/news/240743...hes-killing-16 There were earlier news reports of another stop enroute, possibly Memphis, but I haven't seen this confirmed: Marine Corps KC-130 crashes in Mississippi, 16 dead - CNN.com Video | FOX13 |
Originally Posted by melmothtw
(Post 9827440)
The KC designation just means that it is provisioned for tanking. The USMC use it for a lot more besides that, including troop transport.
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Looking at the video of the crash site, and the inverted wreck, it seems to show the right horizontal stabilizer and elevator snapped off several feet from the fuselage, while the left HS and elevator are intact. The underside of the left elevator and stump right elevator show heavy sooting while the underside of both stabs show none.
That would seem to indicate that the elevators were deflected in the nose down position to get sooted. |
RIP to those killed.
The KC-130J can now carry and fire Hellfire missiles from under its wings as well as remove the aux fuel tank and carry pax, a very versatile if somewhat noisy aircraft! |
Originally Posted by patrickal
(Post 9827347)
Can you point to the posting which states this? I live just a few miles from Stewart, and know several people in this unit. This is not good.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. https://www.facebook.com/groups/7100671855/ |
Do the USMC fit cockpit or flight data recorders?
Whilst it might seem logical, there is the issue of the discussion of classified data during an operation which would make the CDR classified, meaning it was classified and had to be guarded/removed etc. |
About ten years ago -452 almost lost a KC-130T while in flight.
Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hanger deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts. The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck. The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana. This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data. S/F, FOG |
An eyewitness report stated the aircraft was just "spiralling straight down" and a state trooper has reported that the aircraft was carrying a large amount of ammunition which was cooking off in the fire.
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Some Spec Ops folks onboard according to this report:
Six of the Marines and the Navy corpsman were assigned to the Marine Raiders, an elite special operations force. They belonged to the Second Marine Raider Battalion, based at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, according to Maj. Nicholas Mannweiler, a spokesman for the Marine Corps Special Operations Forces. Major Mannweiler said the Raiders were scheduled to conduct “routine” training in Yuma, Ariz., lasting a few days to a couple of weeks, for small teams preparing for deployment overseas. He would not comment on when or where they were to be sent, but the Raiders are assigned to Central Command, which conducts operations in the Middle East, South Asia and Central Asia, including Afghanistan and Iraq. |
Can confirm that there was no active weather in the crash zone around 21z Monday, satellite imagery indicates clear skies between Jackson and Memphis and upper air charts closest to that time look benign at flight level and throughout the column.
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Originally Posted by FOG
(Post 9827851)
About ten years ago -452 almost lost a KC-130T while in flight.
Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hanger deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts. The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck. The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana. This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data. S/F, FOG I can't remember an incident where a T model C-130 was struck off. |
That NYtimes article down at the bottom quotes an eye witness that saw someone jump out of the aircraft and parachute to the ground. Is that confirmed or just fake news ?
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Otherwise safety record good with a list of major accidents over 40 years here:
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/11/mar...-safety-record |
Originally Posted by westernhero
(Post 9828177)
That NYtimes article down at the bottom quotes an eye witness that saw someone jump out of the aircraft and parachute to the ground.
Several reports mention a series of rolling low-intensity booms (like thunder) before seeing the aircraft spinning down. One early report mentioned the cockpit section being found far from the main airframe wreckage - haven't seen that mentioned elsewhere, though. |
Another retelling of the 'inflight breakup': Evidence From Marine KC-130 Crash Site Points to Mid-Air Disaster | Military.com
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Salute!
So sad, but gotta find out why and not let it happen again if possible. Gotta tellya that back in 'nam the grunts scared the hell outta my trash-hauler buddies. They would crawl on a 123 or 'bou with C4 bars and grenades and mucho 7.72 or 5.56 in their ditty bags. So we should not rule out unintended ordnance explosions or related. Ditto for raft deployments and other gear. The lack of severe wx is disturbing, although the Herc is a tough bird and is used to penetrate hurricanes on a regular basis. Ditto for CFIT, as it looks like the main fuselage hit inverted. Gums sends... |
From today's brief by Commanding General of Forth Marine Air Wing, USMC Reserve:
Tail Number 165000 built in 1993 (so one of the newer ones - last of fleet delivered 1995). Experienced an emergency at "cruise altitude". https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/u...ane-crash.html From a former mechanic on type who is now a historian for the model: "According to federal aviation records, the plane was damaged in 2004, when a wind storm tipped it sideways onto one wing, while it was on the ground in Fort Worth. In 2010, a storm piled so much snow on the plane that it tipped back, its nose in the air." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Undoubtedly structural checks will have been carried out after those incidents - and it would have had the equivalent of a Major scheduled maintenance since - but I can't help thinking whether there were any abnormal forces applied to the structure during either. |
gums wrote:
So we should not rule out unintended ordnance explosions or related. Ditto for raft deployments and other gear. Does this model of C-130 have fuel tank inerting or explosion suppression? RIP |
Salute!
Dunno if the USAF Talon birds have suppression, but think so. I doubt the USMC birds have such, but you never know. Shame, but my neighbor two doors down just retired from flying the USAF MC-130, but I am 1200 milles away now and can't get with him easily. BEagle is right about forensic evidence, although seems witnesses reported many secondaries after the plane hit the field. That will complicate things unless a piece of debris from a half mile away has "traces". Gums opines... |
Thaihawk,
I did a quick look through my records on the MIR endorsement chain (USN to USMC back to USN) and didn’t see a copy of the BUNO. Obviously didn’t keep a copy of the MIR. All KC-130s were retro-fitted with foam in all tanks except the fuselage in the 2004-2006 time frame. Talked to a retired FE who is now a Lockheed tech-rep. Late 90s -252 ( Cherry Point) almost lost an aircraft on takeoff when a bleed air duct blew out on take off just missing the inboard port fuel tank by inches. Not even “C” level damage but resulted in replacing all KC-130 F&R bleed air ducts. Not sure if the Ts had their ducts replaced as they were newer acft. and a different pot of money. S/F, FOG |
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Reported in the news paper here that bodies were strewn across a highway 1.8K from the crash site.
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Officials confirmed aircraft broke into at least 2 pieces in the air (presumably obvious from 2 widely separated large items of wreckage on the ground).
This media item taken from link on USMC Forces Reserve website: https://news.usni.org/2017/07/12/mar...least-2-pieces |
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