AFPRB
 

So, are we going to have a 'sweep' on the release date of the AFPRB17 report? I wager it will be released on the Brexit announcement date, unless there is a significant UK atrocity in the meantime. Either would swamp it out of the news.....:hmm:

Mon 20 Mar. 😉

Hardly merits being buried on a suitable competing news day. The annual reduction in real-terms salary is a well worn path, as is the narrative from the supporting cast.

The AFPRB will point a finger at the MOD for non-renumeration issues that influence retention issues and probably moan at MOD for not producing all the reports and staff work that it asked for even though they promptly ignored when setting the 1% rise. The defence leadership already has its funding based on a presumed 1% rise (set last year) and is already reeling from defence inflation being way higher than anticipated, so will not be asking for anything else that may damage the books further.

Politicians will champion the 2% of GDP figure (however derived or however meaningless) and point at those in defence who are lucky enough to get an increment above and beyond the 1%. Meanwhile the Treasury will either grab the 'lower growth/lower inflation, so spend less on wages' argument or the other one, used in better times, 'higher growth/higher inflation so spend less on wages to reduce inflationary pressures'.

Rinse and repeat.

JTO just saved us 117 pages of reading. That's the entire AFPRB neatly summed up in one post.

We could talk instead about how we're going to spend our 1%, oh hang inflation has spent it before we get it!

Aren't garage charges are the traditional way of spending the 1% rise?

Could be interesting though with new flying pay structures versus reserved rights etc., plus beanstealers having to pay to live in during the week?

So, minor quibble here, but I've chatted to the AFPRB a couple of times and they always say that they report 1% because that's what the government has set.

Shouldn't an independant body report what they feel we should be awarded, independent of government direction, and then allow the government to reduce that award based on available funds.

How independant is a body when, if the answer is not 1%, the chairman loses his job (as in the 1.5% X factor rise recommended a couple of years back)

There's no I in AFPRB!

this link.....

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/armed-forces-pay-review-body

If you scroll down to the "what we do" section, it states that the afprb provides independent advice to the PM. I don't understand how it could possibly be independent, if the chairman can get sacked for providing "independent advice" which is anything other than the 1% the government wants to award.

Requesting Monday 20th March please at the very latest...

Mon 20th at the earliest. 😉

I think some people are in for a pleasant surprise. On the other hand some people are in for a shocker.
The letter link below offers the AFPRB leeway on targeted pay rises above the 1% in trades that are hurting (who isn"t). Previous treasury guidance has been quite clear, in fact an out right order to remain at 1%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/539366/CST_letter_to_AFPRB_chair.pdf

It reaffirms the decoupling of average pay from inflation, recruitment and retention rates - until at least 2020. One wonders if the damage will be recoverable from that point, even if the cap is relaxed.

Anyway, I do like the humour in a note that refers to independent advice on pay, as long as the independent answer is 1%. Not applying a 1% rise in one area will provide very little additional headroom in pinch-point areas and I wonder if the corrosive effect it would make it worthwhile.

Come on guys, it's 1% and be grateful. The Treasury has to be able to pay for the MPs' 1.3% rise somehow. I mean, that 10% rise the other year really put a dent in their ability to pay the rest of the public sector a proper rise. There has to be restraint somewhere in the system.

Pay16 changed that, not to mention dropping the armourers a pay level.

Thanks high spirits for reminding us! My last increment was about 1.2% of my pay so with the last annual rise an impressive 2.2% for the year. RPI for the year to Jan was 2.6% so still a pay cut. But less of a pay cut than it would have been.

Anyone remember when we last had a real terms pay rise or even an inflation matching one?

3.2% for Officers and SNCOs and 3.7% for juniors in 2003.

I covered this excuse earlier but for balance quite a few of us are at a band ceiling, those on promotion find the value of that jump reduced, others are on the new mark-time post promotion whilst others are frozen due to the new (but not improved) pay structure swindle.

Of those who will get an incremental progression are unlikely to find that it covers the increase in charges let alone inflation or, god forbid, average earnings index. This will be the 14th year in a row that military real-terms pay has been cut. Fourteen years. I would suggest that the vast majority serving in the Armed Forces have served less than 14 years, so have only ever known pay austerity.

1971 to 1972 - three pay rises totalling nearly 25%. First in April 71 (a 'normal' one), then an Interim one on Sep/Oct and another (of between 5 and 11%) the following April. Unfortunately as usual all the other charges went up as well.

.....not forgetting that NEM has removed an increment level........

I would be happy for the AFPRB to remove the 1-2 year waiting before starting the increment process, they can keep the 1%.

RPI for 2003 was 2.8% so just inflation busting for officers & SNCOs, a little better for ORs.

Which is exactly what is happening. Rumours are that the aircrew branch will be in deficit by a few hundred by 2020 - and that is before all the quarters get allegedly sold off in 2021 when the Annington Homes contract matures!!!

Didn't the recent Future Accommodation Model result suggest that there was limited desire to live on base by choice? IIRC, living in a military community, what I understood to mean living in base, wasn't rated particularly highly which may just encourage the MOD to divest as much of their housing stock as they can. It will probably be a bit like PAYD, with the MOD saying they asked and were responding to personnels' comcerns/wishes.

Also, am I right in thinking that whilst pay and allowances move by wage growth / CPI, charges move by RPI? Am sure I read that somewhere recently, just can't quite place it.

However you overlooked the devil in the detail that the MoD missed.

By removing free food and accommodation and increasing pay and introducing charges they made 'food and accommodation' optional and massively increased the pension base.

The AFPRB are due to publish their report next week. All I can say is they better be thinking ahead because give it 3/5 years and there will be a lot less pilots than they expect.

Aye, it was a good year to leave as my pension was based on the 2003 salary.

Given that mil salaries are now quoted separately as 'core salary' & 'XFactor' (at 14.5%) could we perhaps see the 1% government approved rise applied to the former with a similar reduction in the latter (fewer operational detachments, more stable basing with consequently less upheaval to housing, schooling & spouse employment etc) resulting in a net zero change to the pay bill?

:ugh:Ken, if you think folks are going away less you are mistaken. A colleague of mine on the helo force is out of the country for 9 months this year on various exercises and detachments; because they are not classed as 'ops' he gets absolutely no PODL and has been told he will get one day off for the first 6 weekends missed.

I most certainly do not believe that, but public perception Post Herrick & Telic would support that notion and the AFPRB, at government bidding, might put that forward in my opinion - why else has pay been so sub-divided?

Ken Scott.

I can see your point and the military have previous in this regard. RRP (Flying) used to be called flying pay. When you PVR'd you kept it. The change in nomenclature to RRP went mostly unnoticed until a couple of years later when they announced that when you PVR you will lose a large chunk of your RRP since you are no longer being retained.

They are devious gits and nothing is done without reason.

I hope you're wrong though.

BV

Indeed, some have withdrawn their services because of that very issue for the last year. I know of at least two or three that were flying in Afghan without flying pay, and at least one who grounded himself. Turns out it left him with a lot of time to prepare for pastures new!

Ken, the fact that you don't believe me is irrelevant as it is actually the case. Similarly your perception that because ops have reduced folks are not being dicked about and are spending significant amounts of time away from their families is also irrelevant. Perception and reality are not the same thing.

Jumping Jack: you misunderstand me. I don't Disbelieve you. There are still plenty of operational deployments, particularly for rotary. My comment, 'I certainly don't believe that' referred to your first line, 'if you think folks are going away less...'!

My point was that public perception is that deployments are far fewer than during Herrick & Telic and that it was matters in this regard.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong but as BV points out they like to sneak these subtle changes in until folk are used to them before delivering the bombshell, maybe not this year, but........

I believe that the way pay is shown is a direct result of the recent pay re-structure (Not so relevant for Officers as they're all on the same regradless of branch). For ORs the supplement you are on has a core value depending on how well/badly your trade scored and x-factor is then added.

As for the proposed pay freeze by removing 1% of X-Factor, it wouldn't be as:
1% of £30,000 (core pay) = £300
14.5% of £30,000 = £4350 then 1% = £43.50

£300-£43.5= £256.5 pay rise instead of £300 (an actual .86% pay rise instead of 1%).

Now we know the date to bury any bad pay news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39325561

I never suggested the figure of 1% off the XFactor, I said 'similar', it would need about a 1.13% reduction to cancel out.

No news is just....no news.
 

Has anyone seen anything yet? Was convinced (by various personnel) that today was the day. I wonder if there is a last minute change?

Maybe the chairman needs time to bed in, oops, I meant member.

Armed Forces' Pay Review Body Appointment:Written statement - HCWS438 - UK Parliament