Looks like we'll have to be patient and wait until next week then.......

A disgrace......

Who wants to bet that it's been delayed due to 'recent events' and they don't want to look like massive hypocrites by simultaneously praising the various security forces and also giving them a pay rise that's below inflation (i.e. a real terms pay cut) and also way below what accommodation costs etc will rise by!

The Armed Forces Covenant is a promise from the nation that those who serve or have served in the armed forces, and their families, are treated fairly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...orting-informa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc1iipvzr4s

That'll be the "Armed Forces Con Trick" then

Just had a response from the OME, expect announcement Tuesday or Wednesday next week.....so my first post was spot on.....

Doubtless that then will push all the posturing regarding Article 50 into the sidelines in the "medya".
:hmm:

Hmmmm...Let's see....I do not think that HM Gov can foresee ANY likelyhood that HM Armed Forces will become involved in a manpower-critical conflict within say, the next ten years :rolleyes:. To that end, they are quite content to see manpower levels -25%. Overstretch is simply a cost saving. Sorry!:uhoh:

OAP

OAP, oh come on 10 years? How about 10 weeks, :)

Indeed, numerous mates of my generation went on to 2nd careers on the civil side. Although most of them (sqn ldr/wg cdr) tended to into office jobs at NATS. Still nicely paid, of course, on top of their RAF Pensions. We even had an Air Cdre who bailed out about a year after promotion, and went to Eurocontrol!

I have no idea what the current 'move across' might be, though. And there's no direct licencing read-across for operational ATCOs, to a very fifferent environment. So they would not only have to paas the civil training, buy also unlearn a lot of their past experience. ISTR that NATS wasn't very keen on ex-Mil ATCOs in the past.

Unless you're an MP and it becomes part of the rationale for a 10% pay rise whilst the rest of the country is on austerity measures!

Hi Pontious, Yes I quite agree. It is, in my opinion, the carelessness, self interest and short-sighted unfounded optimism of our elected representatives that can lead Tommy into battle.:(

OAP

Oh, come-on Meltchy...we are all in this together. Aren't we?:oh:

OAP

Of course we're all in this together. Apparently my MP has cut back his smoked salmon and Bollinger afternoon tea to twice per week

Melchett, how can you be so cynical? Poor old George Osborne has had to take on numerous jobs just to make ends meet!

Report out now for those bothered.

linky = https://www.gov.uk/government/public...th-report-2017

It says you will be doing more...for less! :(

OAP

Are there pages missing? Cannot for the life of me see the section on retention initiatives.

Can we now put back the post relating to Flying RRP.

A quick read of this document clearly reveals that MoD is up $hit creek without a paddle. All those things which many PPRuNers warned about over the years, such as the wanton destruction of the widely-regarded excellence of the flying training system, the failure to maintain the hard-won military accreditation system for civil pilot licences and the moral blackmail of ending Flying Pay to those who PVR, have come home to roost.

As the idiots sowed, now shall they reap....:mad:

Truely shocking bit for me:

81% of SFA saw increases under the new CAAS banding system as apposed to the predicted 45%. And 'they' wonder why we have no trust in MOD or our leadership that blindly touted the party line. Reading the report I get the impression that lots of things are broken but there is neither the will or the money from MOD to fix them.

"Many staff commented that the value of the overall offer had declined significantly in recent years and that the investment in new military equipment was not being matched by investment in Service personnel to operate or maintain it. "

In a nut shell.

I'm afraid we will have lots of headline shiny new kit that will sit on the ground. It would appear that 'people' are not listening!

It's a pretty rubbish deal for the next cadre of junior pilots. With 4 years to OCU completion and a further 6 years before proper rates of flying pay the additional 'recruitment and retention' rates for pilots in the first 10 years is bleak.

Asking for a 6 year RoS at around the 11 year point (for £70k) is just nuts. They have turned the virtual exit point at 11 to 12 years into a contractual one. By this point the average pilot will be wondering why he has been working so hard as a JO, whilst his colleagues in ground branches are marching up the career, pay and pension ladder. This is not the point where you hold a RoS gun to a pilot's head - you have just kicked them around for 11 years with little financial gain so the airlines or private sector will look very seductive.

Madness.

JTO

Yes, I don't think this is quite right yet. The £70k at an EDP on AFPS15 would make more sense. Otherwise, it was ever thus that we effectively pay our people to leave. I got a £50k FRI a few years ago and it retained me having started sniffing around the ATPL route. Not a huge amount of money when it had a 5yr ROS, but enough to drag me through to the 22/44 point on the old pension scheme.

However, as I understand it things are different than when I joined. The majority of aircrew now take a Short Service Commission of 12 years, so the 11 year point for £70k may not be so mad. However I would have thought the offer of a Permanent Commission to 18/40 would be enough and then offer the £70k to drag them past that Early Departue Point (EDP) might be better.

It will be inteesting to see whether they have got it right or not.

LJ

Well, actually I beg to disagree, I think overall it is a pretty good deal for the next cadre of pilots and if given my time again would rather be on this new system than the one currently in force. If your plan was to depart as soon as your RoS was up, then you will be around £40k worse off. However with the big jump in flying pay increments, if you plan to stick around until 12 years post OCU (i.e. until just before you would have got Enhanced Rate RRP) then you are about £23k better off just on flying pay alone. You'll also have done your RoS for your FRI, so chuck another £70k on top of that too. You're now probably only about 6 years from the carrot of your IPP. Overall I will be surprised if that doesn't have a positive effect on retention.

Personally, as someone on enhanced rate already I don't get cock-all extra on 1 Apr, but I'm sticking around for the pension and they obviously know it. From a selfish point of view, that sucks, but from a retention point of view, I think they've done an ok job given the constraints.

Check annexe 2. I reckon you are in for around a 1000 quid increase in pay, as you will be transitioning to the next available pay point up from what was enhanced rate (which doesn't exist as of 1 April).

JTO,

I've said it before and I don't think it's changed. I think there is an unofficial and unwritten policy of encouraging people of all Branches / Trades to leave early. Having worked out that pensions are expensive and before people start to climb too high up the pay spine, get them to leave if their own accord.

Yes, it dilutes experience and increases your training burden, but it decreases other costs significantly, especially preserved vs immediate pensions. Plus, if people are leaving early, you can effectively introduce graduated training so the high end high cost training is reserved for those few they want to keep whilst the rest are trained to an adequate level to make up the numbers. We all know it's a short sighted route to go down, but it's accountants with an eye on the bottom line not operators that call the shots these days; they are the ones that hold both power and influence.

If my maths/logic is correct it is about half that: Enhanced this year = £46.04 a day which would be £46.50 with the 1% that is being applied to all other RRP from 1 Apr. Next week I will be on £47.95 a day so after tax I'll get an extra 87 pence a day. Save a few days up and I'll be able to buy a pint in the bar. Or a whole week and I might get a pint on the high street!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining too much as I think the package is still pretty good and I'm staying until pension either way, but it does serve to demonstrate the fact that the retention efforts are for the lump of people post RoS who still need a bit of encouragement to stick it out until their IPP; this won't retain everyone as some will want to leave no matter what, but I do think the changes at least actually make RRP something resembling retention pay (so maybe we just call it Retention Pay (RP) from now on?).

I still think we need this as a long-term solution:

If only the AFPRB would read their own footnotes.

People who are over 7 years from finish OCU, on top rate flying pay, and are about 4 years from leaving get next to nothing and are being offered next to nothing as far as i can see, when you look at what they earn, the pay rise will take them through 60k, potentially amounting to about £75-85 a month. There doesn't seem to be an offer for these guys to say...extend 6 years beyond their leaving point. Also there are plenty of people on the new pension, who are past 7 years but still have about 9 or 10 to go to get to the pension point, it seems to have missed them too. It seems geared more towards retaining people we haven't quite got yet, and not really for the vast majority who are in the SQEP bracket.

First post so be gentle!!

I find this a particularly frustrating situation to find myself in. I qualify for the £70k by being at IPP in the stated timeframe. Im staying for the pension like many others, however I have declared an interest in potentially greener pastures but remaining in defence. On reading the eligibility criteria in the DIN it is going well for me, right up to the point of application where it states that you cannot 'transfer' if you accept the payment.
As this is a Tri-service retention payment recommended by the AFPRB how is it that an individual cannot remain in the military and broaden his/her experience by way of transfer and still benefit from the retention payment?

All sensible offerings received!!

Since when has time served been a good measure of how good/useful a pilot is? Start linking pay to qualifications and skills and we might be keeping the people we need. But of course cheaper to have a junior LCR guy in a seat than a crusty QWI.

Gypsy Magpie.

But of course cheaper to have a junior LCR guy in a seat than a crusty QWI.

This scenario has one obvious benefit. The chat would be far less boring.

BV

Guess you're not a QWI Bob?

OAP

Only a Hawk QWI. Our chat was so much cooler. Same, drift, drift, track, fire...

BV

I'm guessing it is because no other service or branch is offering a £70k FRI at IPP. That is a specifically targeted measure to retain a specific section of defence; if you are transferring somewhere else, then they aren't retaining your expertise within that area that needs it, so you don't get the money. Frustrating, but I get where they are coming from.

Only partially true; if you stay until you are entitle to your FRI then you will still be over £25k better off under the new system than than what you would have been on the 72 week Fg Trg scheme that I came through on (even for the likes of a FJ guy who spends longer to get post OCU). The new higher rates means the longer you stay, the bigger the difference.

I'll say it again, if you leave early you will be worse off, but then it would be a pretty rubbish retention measure if it paid you more to leave early. Stick around for your FRI and you are quids in!

I see no mention of a transition period - so are a bunch of pilots going to see a pay cut next month?

Back in the day my flying pay was included in my mortgage calculation...

BV, :ok:

OAP