NRU74
A very brave man!

As radar fitters, on pre-flights, we had to crawl into the organ loft, carrying a pump, to pressurise the Orange Putter wave form generator. Having to change a U/S one was a job for a contortionist. It was a terrible place to work.

I would never have gone up there if there was a fire.

Only a Queens Commendation? I saw a guy earn a George Medal for less, attempting to put out a fire up the rear hatch, the article incorrectly refers to the Bomb Bay, of a Canberra B2 at Coningsby.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%201540.html

I had somewhat ineffectively emptied a foam extinguisher on the fire before the fire engine arrived on the scene with the professionals.

Ian16th
Memory failure 53 years on
The (then) Chf Tech Wicks was awarded the BEM for his deed !

My late Brother was a Master Pilot, joined up in 1940, ans served 22 years, aq long time as NCO pilot and QFI.
There was a time when there were "Pilot 1, Plot 2, and Pilot 3 ranks, and when they ended he did not want a commision as he would lose most of his rank seniority, which counted towards married quarter allocation and things like that,

I joined up in 75 as a Rigga Mech, and one of the first things I had to do, on arrival at Tern Hill, was my Promotion exams (plural) LAC to SAC. Many Moons later I did the JT/Cpl Promex at Honington - Mentored by a Chief in deeper Techie stuff and again doing Vote for Joe's...but no practical work. My Aptitude Assessment was signed off by lending my Chief a new Phil Collins Album..No Jacket Required. I was still on Time Promotion up to the point I got promoted to JT and I was on Stn Duty Dog at LBH on the day I should have been promoted to Cpl. - although I was promoted some months later.

Later still, doing the SNCO Team Building stuff at Hereford and Scampton (where the only useful thing I found was learning how to guide a crane properly!)

So yes, the dumbing down of us techies was pretty continual...For me, it picked up as soon as I left the RAF and started learning about all the other things that surround helicopters and aeroplanes! - And I'm still learning.

My late father was a Master Pilot, Jim Perry served 1948 to 1968. He had signed on for 22 years but due to contraction of the RAF took redundancy. His last posting after RAFCAW Strubby was as Unit Test pilot at Cranwell. He was issued a Warrant Officer warrant dated 15 Dec 1965 which I still have. When I went Varsity flying at Cranwell in 1969/70 there were very experienced Master Signallers who looked after us cadets with advice,food & drink.

Suppose it's just pride but I'm glad my Warrant and the Auxiliary Air Force warrant both say Master Engineer rather than today's 'Master Aircrew'.

Went to Biggin Hill in 1972 (ish) and was in a group with a Sergeant Pilot on Whirlwinds, apparently he told me he was the last one. No idea whether he got commissioned or not.

Master Pilots and other trades were still around in abundance then but disappeared not long afterwards.

I obviously knew your late brother in '57-'58 at 2ANS as the name rings a strong bell but try as I can I can't fit a face to the name. I am sure I flew with him a few times but as I have no recall after 60 years means that they were safe and uneventful flights unless he was the gentleman who knew where he was when I didn't on my 1st solo navex. I thought we had arrived back at Petersfield to be told "Well nav its a town and its got a railway line but a river instead of a lake....Christ thats a B47 .....ah Greenham Common".

Brian,
Mine dated 1 Jan 1974 says Warrant Officer !

First entry in my logbook, 22 Jun 64, Chipmunk WB 738, M Plt Forrester (same airframe for first solo a little later). Some lovely old SNCO instructors around, my FNT on JPs was with M Plt Naismith.

"An old Master Pilot, quietly Master Piloting away in the corner"

Surely, that was a Master Painter.

A very honourable rank indeed ! ("A Warrant Officer by any other name would smell as sweet"). In WWII, on receiving our Brevets, most of us, being adjudged too uncouth for Commissioned rank, were promoted from Leading Aircraftmen to Sergeants, paid 13/6 a day (Pilots and Navs), and told to go away and play.

If you survived 12 months, you were promoted Flight Sergeant and got a few more "bob". If you defied all the odds, and made it for another 12 months, you were promoted Warrant Officer, got a bit more pay, a nice barathea uniform to replace your scratchy serge, lived in equal comfort to (in the Sergeants' Mess), and much more cheaply than any junior Officer.

Your juniors called you "Sir", an officer would address you (formally) as "Mister Smith" (in your crew you were, of course, "Skipper", "Paddy"or "Johnny" or whatever).

So matters stood as the war ended.

Around '48 the Air House had one of its brainstorms, but instead of lying down in a darkened room till it went away, put it into practice. This was the "Four-star Brandy" idea described in detail in these columns already. "P.1" was a poor substitute for "Warrant Officer", protest arose on all sides, and they changed it to "Master Pilot, etc", which was much better.

Then they threw away the whole "Four-star" idea (to general acclamation), and went back to what they'd had before. But (unwilling, as always, to admit that they'd made the mess in the first place *), they retained the "Master" rank. In later years all the old aircrew NCOs had worked up to "Master" (I don't know what the time requirement was). And the rest you know.

Note *: exactly the same subterfuge (which fooled nobody) was used for the three-button officers' No.1 Jacket of the '50s (to replace the wartime four-button).

Danny42C.

Leave well alone - if it ain't broke, don't fix it !

Heading back to the Master Pilot thread - lets not forget MPlt Dennis Rowe, at Binbrook in the early 70's as a Lightning Sim Instructor.

A gentleman who, in between Sim Slots, built a state of art electronic organ in the Sim computer room, at that time the organ was more electronically advanced than the simulator !!!!!

Yet hitching a ride with him between space cadet AEF on Chipmunks was a joy.. Never realized a Chippy could be considered as a WW2 train buster - Dennis often demonstrated the technique, he used in 1944, over Covenham Resevoir...

Anyone remember Dennis ???

Uptime...

2 TWU (Ref post #89)

I was very fortunate to have MPlt Jock Naismith as my instructor at Syerston (62-63).

Fixed Cross (once a Sgt Pilot)

In 1975 we had a M Pilot Ken Shardlow as a Deputy Ops Controller at 46 Gp Ops Upavon. His last flying tour I believe was on Brigands in Malaya. His wife all 4ft 6 of her, an ex wartime WAAF used to drink every lunchtime and evening in the Antelope Pub in the village, where she would consume at least 6/7 pints of bitter at every session!!!!!:ooh: After he retired we gained M Pilot George Pope who had been ops on 216 Sqn when they flew Comets at Lyneham. Working with all of the Master Aircrew at Upavon certainly helped when I decided to apply for Airmen Aircrew in 78, great men who guided and mentored me into what turned out to be the best move of my 38 year career.

Fixed Cross, I well remember after my high & low level sorties with M Plt Naismith (Jock?)thinking if I ever got to a position of testing students, that's the way to do it, a real gentleman and QFI

In ASCOC I was fortunate to work with Master Nav John Ford ex Mosquitos, York, Hastings. Master Pilot Ken Shardlow, he flew just about everything under the sun. These two gentlemen kept the long night shift interesting with stories of their past exploits. 1971/72

The OH remembers him in 216 Ops well ... she was Sqn Adj.

Legend had it that M/Plt Jackson was also missing his Adams apple (war wounds) and, without this obstruction, he was capable of downing a pint faster than anyone else! Does anyone know if this was true?

Not to forget M/Plt "Andy" Anderson, who was my Jet Provost instructor at Syerston '65/'66. A hard taskmaster, but he must have taught me well, since I managed a 38-year flying career.

That explains the picture here then

Halton

http://www.rushenhistory.com/brat/sing%20ginge.jpg

The other RAF use of chevrons point up [the heraldic chevron IS point up of course] was for the Good Conduct badges. My LAC father had one in WW II ......... a bit of a mystery why/when they ceased. [Come to that, so did Lawrence of Arabia in his RAF service].

Abolished in 1950 (AMO A 594).

That answers the "when", but as for the "why" I have no idea!

A bit like the JT, probably someones only claim to fame in the military and used as a backboard for his advancement, but in the end pointless and expensive.

All those new ranks to produce, all the literature from QR's down to amend and for what, to have a rank that is in all intent the same, but just wearing a different badge and called a different name, while making removing the progression chain and sense of it all to the rank of Chief Tech.

. I was certainly chuffed to put up my hard earned J/T stripe. Only 4 out of 16 who started my course made it to the end.
I imagine someone was scratching around in MOD for something to do and came up with the idea.
For a predominately technical Service the original advancement through the technical ranks via promotion boards and time in rank made sense to most people and certainly improved one's practical skills and knowledge.
I've just read the link to Halton. I knew Pete Rushen at Bassingboun. He had an interesting career. Small world!

From the attitude of the affected people at the time, they definitely didn't think it was a pointless system.

There was a lot of resentment that those who had sat on their collective backsides, and not bothered to work for and pass a trade test, suddenly were given a larger pay increase to the same as those that had done some work and proved their ability.

Tankertrashnav: many thanks.

From 1950, good conduct was assumed and unrewarded!

The army has never [as far as I can make out], formally abolished the GCB, merely ceased to award and wear it, although it lingered on well past 1950, especially on Foot Guards Home Service Dress.

As far as I know, the RN retains the badges and the monetary awards.

The inverted chevron is also used to denote drum and pipe majors.

As far as I know, the RN retains the badges and the monetary awards. LB

GCBs - Yes GCB Pay - Sadly not, wef 1 April 70.

PS Not 1 April again....

Jack

My Father had the Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. It was jocularly referred to as having been awarded for "Twenty-two Years of Undetected Crime" !

Danny.

Danny - still the same expression, but it's only 15 years of undetected crime these days!

Re RN long service badges, the expression "as rough as a three badge stoker" (ie one with three long service stripes) was used to epitomise the hairy a**ed and grizzled old salt, possibly not renowned for his refined language and behaviour.

I'm sure Union Jack has known a few!

I'm sure Union Jack has known a few! - TTN

Yes indeed, depending of course on one's definition of "known".....:=

Many of you will know the doubtless apocryphal story of the Captain doing Rounds on a Saturday morning and, on entering the Stokers' messdeck, exclaiming, "My wife would say that this mess smells like a Turkish brothel," to which the three badge Leading Hand of the Mess replied, "I'm sorry, Sir, I'm afraid I don't have your wife's experience."!:D

At the other end of the scale, I escorted a Field Marshal and long past CDS on a tour of my Admiral's flagship, which included stand easy (aka tea break) in the Stokers' mess. As we were about to leave, the Field Marshal in his beret and very faded woolly pully and equally faded shoulder straps asked if there were any questions, and the no badge junior stoker, who had just entered the mess with no idea of who the visitor was and whose military knowledge was somewhat lacking, said, "Yes, Sir. How come someone your age never got past Sergeant Major?":uhoh: To his credit, His Lordship was very amused.

Jack

Fonsini, to answer your question, the rank of Master Pilot was "Master Pilot".

The LSGCM seemed to be withheld at times for relatively trivial reasons. Around 1962 I came across a Chief Tech armourer with an AG brevet and all the ribbons you would expect, except for the LSGCM. His crime sheet showed nothing except 3 instances of AWOLWOAS, in each case late back from leave or grant during 1944/5 and none more than 12 hours. I'm pleased to say that someone higher up listened and he got his gong and the cash (6d a day?) that went with it.

Probably the most chevrons worn at one time was the case of a a Sgt/Boy or Sgt/App who was also Drum/Pipe Major.

There is a photo somewhere of such a case, with 3 chevrons point down above the elbow and 4 point up on the lower sleeve, of each arm.

Dunno where he would have worn his GC stripes.

I was an ATC Cadet FS and also Sqn Band Drum Major. I don't think I had the balls to wear both sets of stripes, though, and in any case I had enough other badges and lanyards and wings [PPL and Glider].

Hi, I have searched high and low for any information regarding my late father, M/plt Albert Dennis Rowe and to read your thread brought a tear to my eyes. He built that electronic organ as a present for my mother who was suffering from Lupus for most of her life. He got the original plans from Practical electronics magazine but having built it realised there was no `feel` to the keys...so he did what anyone would do..he re designed the electronics to make it better!.
I still find it hard to talk about my father as he was the most wonderful guy and `touched` everyond who knew hima as he was very `old school` and a perfect gentleman.
I have all of his memorabilia including button compasses, silk maps, masses of photos and of course his medals.
I would love to hear any memories you could muster up.
A very proud son
Paul

When I was on 206 Sqn at St: Mawgan, 1961 to 1964 we had a Sgt. Pilot. His first name was Horace, don´t remember his surname.

Horace Gallop

My first commercial flying job was co-pilot on Beech Kingairs. One of the old hands was "Doc" Watson who had served on Javelins with the rank of Master Pilot. I'm still here 40 years and 20,000 hours later because of the things he taught me - a "Master Pilot" in every sense.