V-22 for SAS
 

I see in the Times, and I note DM, that the SAS are acquiring the V-22, with crews currently training in the USA. No mention of numbers, but I assume at leat 3? To cover for maintenance and training/op spare.

The detail of if the crew are army or RAF will presumably impact on the carrier V-22 discussion on another thread.

Leak or confidential briefing?

Sounds like "2+2=5" to me. It is only natural that Cdr JHC would like to get on the record his aspiration that his forces should have the best equipment - that way if an incident happens and the response is criticised he can say "I asked but wasn't given the money". It also makes complete sense for UKSF to conduct famil flying with the Mildenhall based CV-22 community, which, doubtless, in time of acute national need would be made available.

Any UK purchase of V-22 is probably quite some way off. As ORAC suggests, the RN COD requirement may well be the "foot in the door" that would permit a small number of V-22s to be purchased for JSFAW - probably to enable 7 Sqn to release the Mk6 Chinooks back to SH and to have a blend of "fat tank" Mk5 Chinook and V-22. We'd need at least 6 frames to provide 2x FL, 1x Trg/Spare and 3 in either light or deep rectification. Double that to include COD and the number is probably between 12-16 airframes. There are already RN pilots flying the V-22 on exchange so "crews training in the US" is true as well.

Sure the story wasn't meant to be published on 1 April?

1) Can't do brown out or white out landings without a lot of fancy kit and training.
2) Crap for low-level, mountain work
3) Not particularly manoeuvrable, not great range
4) Wrong speed for escort helis or fighter cover
5) Clumsy radar and noise signature
5) Hopeless for fast-roping due to massive downwash
6) Can it drop HALO ore even static line? Dunno but if it can probably not good at it.
7) Can't autorotate, can't glide
8) Heavy maintenance support

Great maybe for niche role for US special ops with no budget limit - but too specialist for UKSF budget and ethos.

About a month ago I saw a pair of V-22 operating in and around Wiltshire, in company with 2 x Chinook and 2 x Apache.
3P

They seem to be still around threeputt. Seen them for a few weeks now, seem to be lifting from Fairford so assumed a standard exercise deployment. Perhaps the US Marine corps are going to drive the taxi's !

Smudge :ok:

It's been on UKSF's shopping list for a number of years, now. It would be great if we did buy some as it would make a change to the answer of "2 Chinooks, please"...:ok:

IIRC if it's pressurised (which it is) then the RAF operate it. I'll start the rumour now! :ok:

LJ

Expensive kit, the V-22, but maybe your SpecOps folks get a bit more dough for things, as ours often do. Best wishes on adding it to the mix.

Spangdahlen will also have a European Spec Forces base and 'quite a few' Ospreys (v -22)
replacing the F16s and the previously Spangdahlen based A-10. Supposed to be hush but everyone in the area knows all about it - or at least that's what they tpld me a couple of weeks ago.

5aday,

The move of a USAF Special Operations Group into Spangdahlem AB was announced publicly in 2015 - it is not an additional unit.

The USAF 352 SOG is relocating from RAF Mildenhall to Spangdahlem AB as part of the base consolidation program announced in 2015.

RAF Mildenhall to close amid other Europe consolidations - Europe - Stripes

Thank you. I just found out and they all think its TS in the immediate area.
It secures a lot of jobs for the locals.

Era late 1980s and a joint planning exercise ran a scenario involving the rescue of a bus-load of holiday makers from an area of the world they shouldn’t have been in. As a planner for the rotary aspect I was very interested in the capabilities of V-22, still at that time in development. Using the advertising data from the manufacturer and factoring it down to represent our view of reality in service, we developed a fictitious squadron of V-22. It was 66 Sqn and we had it deployed with a capability to launch 8 airframes on task.

We ran the scenario against our current rotary assets and some Tac AT in support. We used all the UK military’s rotary assets (RN/RAF/AAC) except the SAR buoys and I think 4 Hercs for the job and it worked out at 4 days to do the job with considerable risk of exposure and compromise.

At the end of the exercise we briefed the staff on the same op with our fictitious 66 Sqn doing the job ……. 4 hours in and out!! We actually thought we could do it in 1 hour 35 mins but decided we needed a deception plan to enhance survivability and maintain security.

Either way we all realized it was a major game-changer. Pity UK Mil PLC didn’t see the same potential. Would have loved to have had a go myself to prove our theory but if we ever do get this baby I will be well and truly in a care home.

Kbc

One seen overflying Herefordshire earlier this year!

We these be in addition to the civilian-a-like Panther (or A109?) seen occasionally in the circuit at Brize?

The SAS haven't used A109s for several years.

'Leased from the US Air Force'?
I thought they were US Army and USMC.

No, USMC and USAF have the Osprey.

Given their current abode V-22 would seem to be extremely suitable for a rapid response mode of transport for personnel and equipment

Chevron,

The CV-22B has been the USAF Special Operation Forces primary vertical lift asset since achieving IOC in 2009 - hence the retirement of the MH-53J/M PAVE LOW III fleet.

51 x CV-22B are due to be delivered by end-2019.

CV-22 Osprey > U.S. Air Force > Fact Sheet Display

I was fortunate enough to be invited in June 2013 literally after Le Bourget - (the event was supposedly on the week when Le Bourget was happening but due to delays -as in the a/c were still in CYYT it did not happen)

So here are my photos of that day,

cheers

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...psbpgbo8j0.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...psthzm3g1p.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...psjcbxrtlh.jpg

Seen pairs of them en route to Donna Nook, previously Apache too.

MV-22 demo at MCAS Yuma Air Show 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZrQi2K0hw4

The MV-22 has also been in service with USMC HMX-1 - the Presidential / VIP transport unit - since 2013.

HMX-1 is getting way more V-22s than UK SF could aspire to (qty 12 so far).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xcj...&nohtml5=False

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROJwL2suUMI

MV-22 interior tour with Aircraft Commander: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0QFg3Fx77s

MV-22 - carrier ops + AAR from KC-130J: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmisIde7iM8

MV-22 with Interim Defensive Weapon System - retractable underbody gatling gun - made by BAe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVok...&nohtml5=False

Just out of interest anybody ever seen one do a quickstop?

The US Army are getting the V-280 Valor but not the V-22.

I occasionally see US singles or pairs at Gando base Las Palmas. Quite a distance from their operating base in mainland Spain. Possibly in transit or refuelling !

That's not a done deal yet, but the Valor is in the competition. Defiant (S-97 Raider scaled up) looks to be the primary competition from L/M Sikorsky.

Only visited 'Credenhill' for a short period for ATC Camp back in '84, but I would have thought the available open space (south of the hangars) at the ex RAF Hereford was a bit small for the V22; Ok for the helicopters they presently use though.
Edit to add: In fact looking at a satellite photo, I'm sure there are more hangars there now, so the open space is even smaller!

V-22 power folding up for storage - great party trick - pretty quick & nice engineering !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_45a...&nohtml5=False

Still lots to prove by both OEM's at this stage, but if you want range & speed it's Valor and if you want hover & speed it's Defiant, so I would see both companies getting orders, as these are very different ships.

Oh and I still believe the US Army sees Raider as the AAS solution.

RAFEng - never seen that before - pretty damn clever.

Plenty of space where the CRW training takes place ;)

Perhaps nobody knows, so I'll ask again, can this thing do a quickstop? Because if it can't its just another transport! As for 30 mins into London - to where?

To any recce'd LS :cool:

You must be the expert then - when was the last time you tried? Recce'd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!