V-22 for SAS
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
V-22 for SAS
I see in the Times, and I note DM, that the SAS are acquiring the V-22, with crews currently training in the USA. No mention of numbers, but I assume at leat 3? To cover for maintenance and training/op spare.
The detail of if the crew are army or RAF will presumably impact on the carrier V-22 discussion on another thread.
The detail of if the crew are army or RAF will presumably impact on the carrier V-22 discussion on another thread.
Sounds like "2+2=5" to me. It is only natural that Cdr JHC would like to get on the record his aspiration that his forces should have the best equipment - that way if an incident happens and the response is criticised he can say "I asked but wasn't given the money". It also makes complete sense for UKSF to conduct famil flying with the Mildenhall based CV-22 community, which, doubtless, in time of acute national need would be made available.
Any UK purchase of V-22 is probably quite some way off. As ORAC suggests, the RN COD requirement may well be the "foot in the door" that would permit a small number of V-22s to be purchased for JSFAW - probably to enable 7 Sqn to release the Mk6 Chinooks back to SH and to have a blend of "fat tank" Mk5 Chinook and V-22. We'd need at least 6 frames to provide 2x FL, 1x Trg/Spare and 3 in either light or deep rectification. Double that to include COD and the number is probably between 12-16 airframes. There are already RN pilots flying the V-22 on exchange so "crews training in the US" is true as well.
Any UK purchase of V-22 is probably quite some way off. As ORAC suggests, the RN COD requirement may well be the "foot in the door" that would permit a small number of V-22s to be purchased for JSFAW - probably to enable 7 Sqn to release the Mk6 Chinooks back to SH and to have a blend of "fat tank" Mk5 Chinook and V-22. We'd need at least 6 frames to provide 2x FL, 1x Trg/Spare and 3 in either light or deep rectification. Double that to include COD and the number is probably between 12-16 airframes. There are already RN pilots flying the V-22 on exchange so "crews training in the US" is true as well.
1) Can't do brown out or white out landings without a lot of fancy kit and training.
2) Crap for low-level, mountain work
3) Not particularly manoeuvrable, not great range
4) Wrong speed for escort helis or fighter cover
5) Clumsy radar and noise signature
5) Hopeless for fast-roping due to massive downwash
6) Can it drop HALO ore even static line? Dunno but if it can probably not good at it.
7) Can't autorotate, can't glide
8) Heavy maintenance support
Great maybe for niche role for US special ops with no budget limit - but too specialist for UKSF budget and ethos.
2) Crap for low-level, mountain work
3) Not particularly manoeuvrable, not great range
4) Wrong speed for escort helis or fighter cover
5) Clumsy radar and noise signature
5) Hopeless for fast-roping due to massive downwash
6) Can it drop HALO ore even static line? Dunno but if it can probably not good at it.
7) Can't autorotate, can't glide
8) Heavy maintenance support
Great maybe for niche role for US special ops with no budget limit - but too specialist for UKSF budget and ethos.
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They seem to be still around threeputt. Seen them for a few weeks now, seem to be lifting from Fairford so assumed a standard exercise deployment. Perhaps the US Marine corps are going to drive the taxi's !
Smudge
Smudge
It's been on UKSF's shopping list for a number of years, now. It would be great if we did buy some as it would make a change to the answer of "2 Chinooks, please"...
IIRC if it's pressurised (which it is) then the RAF operate it. I'll start the rumour now!
LJ
IIRC if it's pressurised (which it is) then the RAF operate it. I'll start the rumour now!
LJ
Expensive kit, the V-22, but maybe your SpecOps folks get a bit more dough for things, as ours often do. Best wishes on adding it to the mix.
Spangdahlen will also have a European Spec Forces base and 'quite a few' Ospreys (v -22)
replacing the F16s and the previously Spangdahlen based A-10. Supposed to be hush but everyone in the area knows all about it - or at least that's what they tpld me a couple of weeks ago.
replacing the F16s and the previously Spangdahlen based A-10. Supposed to be hush but everyone in the area knows all about it - or at least that's what they tpld me a couple of weeks ago.
5aday,
The move of a USAF Special Operations Group into Spangdahlem AB was announced publicly in 2015 - it is not an additional unit.
The USAF 352 SOG is relocating from RAF Mildenhall to Spangdahlem AB as part of the base consolidation program announced in 2015.
RAF Mildenhall to close amid other Europe consolidations - Europe - Stripes
The move of a USAF Special Operations Group into Spangdahlem AB was announced publicly in 2015 - it is not an additional unit.
The USAF 352 SOG is relocating from RAF Mildenhall to Spangdahlem AB as part of the base consolidation program announced in 2015.
RAF Mildenhall to close amid other Europe consolidations - Europe - Stripes
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Era late 1980s and a joint planning exercise ran a scenario involving the rescue of a bus-load of holiday makers from an area of the world they shouldn’t have been in. As a planner for the rotary aspect I was very interested in the capabilities of V-22, still at that time in development. Using the advertising data from the manufacturer and factoring it down to represent our view of reality in service, we developed a fictitious squadron of V-22. It was 66 Sqn and we had it deployed with a capability to launch 8 airframes on task.
We ran the scenario against our current rotary assets and some Tac AT in support. We used all the UK military’s rotary assets (RN/RAF/AAC) except the SAR buoys and I think 4 Hercs for the job and it worked out at 4 days to do the job with considerable risk of exposure and compromise.
At the end of the exercise we briefed the staff on the same op with our fictitious 66 Sqn doing the job ……. 4 hours in and out!! We actually thought we could do it in 1 hour 35 mins but decided we needed a deception plan to enhance survivability and maintain security.
Either way we all realized it was a major game-changer. Pity UK Mil PLC didn’t see the same potential. Would have loved to have had a go myself to prove our theory but if we ever do get this baby I will be well and truly in a care home.
Kbc
We ran the scenario against our current rotary assets and some Tac AT in support. We used all the UK military’s rotary assets (RN/RAF/AAC) except the SAR buoys and I think 4 Hercs for the job and it worked out at 4 days to do the job with considerable risk of exposure and compromise.
At the end of the exercise we briefed the staff on the same op with our fictitious 66 Sqn doing the job ……. 4 hours in and out!! We actually thought we could do it in 1 hour 35 mins but decided we needed a deception plan to enhance survivability and maintain security.
Either way we all realized it was a major game-changer. Pity UK Mil PLC didn’t see the same potential. Would have loved to have had a go myself to prove our theory but if we ever do get this baby I will be well and truly in a care home.
Kbc
I thought they were US Army and USMC.