PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Military Aviation (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)
-   -   Vulcan Alleged Barrel Roll being investigated (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/570180-vulcan-alleged-barrel-roll-being-investigated.html)

ShyTorque 9th Jan 2017 17:17


Keep this under your hat, the Nav uses a GPS... http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif
I'll bet he's got a digital watch, too!

H Peacock 9th Jan 2017 17:26

The Lanc's main instrument panel looks just as it did when produced over 70 years ago; mostly direct reading dials/gauges with vacuum driven gyros. The dual flying controls are also original, but retrofitted to PA. The V/UHF radio & intercom system is not original but now rather old and in need of updating. The Nav's TACAN is indeed discreetly hidden but never used.

A handheld GPS is invariably used, but then most of the Flt's Nav's are now on ground tours and so probably not as slick at clock/map/gnd as they once were!

The undercarriage does indeed include many Shack parts including the tyres (main wheel covers!) but the most modern part of PA is the tailwheel. Its tyre comes from an Airbus!

NutLoose 9th Jan 2017 20:21


Keep this under your hat, the Nav uses a GPS...
Surely that should read the Nav is a GPS.

I think you will find they all have FLARM now too.

ValMORNA 9th Jan 2017 20:36

There was/is? an Avro Vulcan XL360 at the Coventry aircraft museum, with access to the 'driver's' seat on request. Saw it a good few years ago, though, so things may have changed by now.

polecat2 9th Jan 2017 20:59

The BBMF HAS DUAL CONTROLS which is a recent modification

all lancs in the war didn't have a copilot or a method of dual controls


After many years of reading books about WW2 RAF bomber crews I have frequently seen references to a pilot of a new crew flying as a second pilot with an experienced crew for his first op. He was referred to as a 'second dickie'. From what I can remember a second set of flight controls was fitted and he used the flight engineer's fold-down seat next to the pilot.

Polecat

lauriebe 10th Jan 2017 01:52

2 Attachment(s)
PN, not sure how long it is since you last visited Newark.

I was last inside 594 on 30 April 2013 and took these photos of the 'office'.

Pontius Navigator 10th Jan 2017 07:08

Laurie,a couple before that, thanks. I have a distinct memory of no bombing panel which is not to say they didn't acquire one since.

I remember back in the 60s, going into the garden of a Lake land pub. Sitting on the wall was T2 bombing computer, previous model to the V Force T4. What it was doing there I never found out.

pontifex 10th Jan 2017 13:35

Certainly didn't have Tacan in my day. Just a pretty unreliable old compass and the nav standing behind me with an OS map.

Re the main spas - phone rang one day and a man from Woodford said we are demolishing an old hangar and have found two lengths of what we think may be unimproved old Lanc mainspars - would you like them. Much later when the Lanc was considered to have run out of fatigue they were examined and actually found to be just that. That's why the old girl is still flying.

Pontius Navigator 10th Jan 2017 15:55

Pontiflex clearly the Tacan mod pre-dated your time :)

It was mounted top of the coaming and if it wasn't rotating it was pointing resolutely 40 degrees off. We didnt twig why until a little time later and as it was an unestablished task we didn't trouble the engineers.

We did however find a never used drift sight which was very good for winds.

TEEEJ 9th Feb 2017 12:49

The "XH558 barrel rolls" are discussed in the following podcast.

See 37 minutes 36 seconds until 41 minutes 55 seconds.


In this eagerly-awaited special edition of UKAR's popular podcast, Dan O'Hagan sits down for a lengthy conversation with VTTS Chief Executive Robert Pleming to discuss the present and the future, as well as a number of revealing insights into controversial incidents of the project's past.
Podcast Title #9: Vulcan XH558 Crisis (08 February 2017)

'Display Frequency' Podcast from UK Airshow Review

Treble one 9th Feb 2017 14:19

Flight crew at the time named as well.....

langleybaston 9th Feb 2017 15:20

Thread drift but "From what I can remember a second set of flight controls was fitted and he used the flight engineer's fold-down seat next to the pilot".

I would be most interested to have a little collateral on this, as I have wondered about the matter for some time.

Davef68 9th Feb 2017 23:28


Originally Posted by Treble one (Post 9670350)
Flight crew at the time named as well.....

That was a matter of public knowledge. The "roll" was never confirmed.

tartare 10th Feb 2017 01:01

What's the big black and yellow handle mid panel up on the glareshield?
Is that a canopy release to lose the roof before the front two occupants step outside?

Treble one 10th Feb 2017 04:38

The CAA ordered VTTS to check the airframe after reports of this 'manoeuvre' to see that it had not been overstressed prior to the final farewell flights-according to Dr P himself in the podcast. I don't think there's any doubt the aircraft was rolled.

BEagle 10th Feb 2017 07:14

tartare wrote:

What's the big black and yellow handle mid panel up on the glareshield?
That's for deploying the Ram Air Turbine, which provides additional electrical power for certain emergency situations.

The canopy jettison levers are the black-and-yellow striped handles on the port and starboard cockpit side walls and can be seen in the photos.

In the event of ejection, however, the canopy would be jettisoned automatically as the first part of the ejection sequence.

Davef68 10th Feb 2017 08:54


Originally Posted by Treble one (Post 9670995)
The CAA ordered VTTS to check the airframe after reports of this 'manoeuvre' to see that it had not been overstressed prior to the final farewell flights-according to Dr P himself in the podcast. I don't think there's any doubt the aircraft was rolled.

I'm sure Pleming very quietly says 'yes' in the podcast when asked directly

tartare 10th Feb 2017 08:59

Thanks Beagle.
Bloody legend of a jet it is...

airsound 10th Feb 2017 15:37

Thanks for posting the UKAR link, TEEEJ (different version of the same link)
http://www.airshows.co.uk/podcast/

It's a bit on the long side (1hr 5mins), but well worth a listen - especially, perhaps, for the doubters seen occasionally in these hallowed halls. Dan O'Hagan doesn't pull any punches, and Robert Pleming gives answers that are as spin-free as you could expect from the CEO of a charity with a multi-million pound turnover.

airsound
who is, as regular readers will know, not unbiased in these matters

longer ron 10th Feb 2017 15:45


Originally Posted by polecat2 (Post 9635473)
The BBMF HAS DUAL CONTROLS which is a recent modification

all lancs in the war didn't have a copilot or a method of dual controls


After many years of reading books about WW2 RAF bomber crews I have frequently seen references to a pilot of a new crew flying as a second pilot with an experienced crew for his first op. He was referred to as a 'second dickie'. From what I can remember a second set of flight controls was fitted and he used the flight engineer's fold-down seat next to the pilot.

Polecat

AFAIK the Second Dickie trips were normally flown without dual controls being fitted,the New Pilot was simply being introduced to and being given the experience of an operational sortie at operational high AUW.Also they would probably be able to pick up many tips from a seasoned operational crew which would help with settling in a new crew.
From the books I have read the 2nd Dickie was sometimes allowed a spell on the controls to give the Skipper a break on the way home or occasionally if they were injured.


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:53.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.