That is interesting sailor, as I think we are talking the same (nominal) power here?

OAP

Good grief!
 

Sailor, I have no doubt that what you say about looping a naval single seat Hunter is quite correct. I am equally positive that no RAF supervisor would have authorised you to do that! You need to be spot on every time, and 200' is very little margin for error when pulling out of the vertical at optimum alpha. But you survived ...
Onceapilot - a Mk11 Hunter is powered by a much more powerful Avon than the T7.

The Hunter GA 11 were surely F4 converted for the Navy and so had the same 7.500 lb thrust Avon 115 ( or 121) as the T7 & T8. The higher thrust (10,000 lb) Avon 203 was first fitted to the F6.

Never assume, check ... I stand corrected. I thought the nomenclature of GA11 would have put it later than the FR10 in development terms. I would be even less inclined to loop one at low level like that if that's all the poke it has! Also begs the question of why sailor would want more height/speed in a T8 if it has the same donk as a GA11.
Let's face it, though, this is idle banter and of no relevance to Shoreham. I agree wholeheartedly with sailor that the AAIB will, in the fullness of time, publish the full story. They will also publish the caveats, if any.

Gate heights
 

I wouldn't be so sure that Gate heights / speed don't feature prominently in the AAIB final report.

AAIB state

and

[=~2590' agl]

This suggests different data sources but referring to the same point in time, subject to the nature of 'initial findings'. It is remarkable to think that the Go Pro in cockpit camera survived.

To you bu$$ers drinking all my coffee, an ironic sort of "thank you" :ok: Keep your mitts of the ground stuff - that's for the Boss and visitors only. And use the Long Life ...

Deef's - thanks mate - all input welcome and your jottings are duly archived

My overarching point remains.

Rule 1 - stay out of trouble
Rule 2 - when in trouble, depart the trouble quickly

Because for sure 100kt at 2600' is a compromised top-of-loop kinda' position in an aircraft that needs perhaps 3500' to recover through the vertical and regain S & L flight as per the DA by 500'.

As m'honorable gentleman BEag's has suggested there are possible reasons for less thrust than might have been thought [although speed / throttle setting might have been an old fashioned check on that in the run in]

Lets leave it that the risk of a fully developed stall and its secondary effect means that your manoeuvring options are limited.

Back to the whiteboard people, focus now:

Talk me through your recovery from this assumed 100kt/2600' agl/Inverted 'unusual position'.

Here's AH's office for the day [and here's a glass to his eventual recovery in hospital and to his family and support network]

This is the Gatport Airwick Hunter

Hawker Hunter T.7B. (XL591) - Gatwick Aviation Museum
http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.c...s/cockpit4.jpg

For those of you who have not seen the wide range of public imagery

These are some images I exposed, one of which showing the departure from the inverted and one shortly before a high rate of sink developed

Just follow the link

The fact remains, and it is sobering in its wake up call for us all, that it all happened so very quickly. Aviation at low level remains somewhat unforgiving when things start to unravel.

A sequence of stills of the Hunter at Shoreham

Because the T-bird is about 1300lbs heavier if I recall the numbers correctly. Beags will no doubt be along shortly with the exact figure.

Altimeter position
 

If that cockpit is typical then rolling left means you hide the altimeter with the stick. Planning the figure with the rolling element going downwards (as was done in a prior show) or rolling right would have been a work around (of course rolling right would have meant a change in the sequence direction etc so that wouldn't have been an easy change - although of course given none of it can be "made up" on the day).

There are still several airworthy T7s on the UK register, so I would imagine the AAIB will make use of one to explore just that.

One good thing might come out of this for the armchair experts is the Beagle might understand why some insructors still prefer to teach HASELL before steep turning, if only to remind themselves and the student that height is insurance!

pull what

You've lost this ex-QFI and armchair expert with that one, HASELL checks before a Derry I can understand....

The Shoreham hunter had a few mod cons fitted. Like a GPS, clock, UHF/VHF radio, etc...
I would post picture from the hunter cockpit just before AH took it to Bruntingthorpe 2 weeks previously, but uploading photos on prune defeats me.

wiggy, he has a bee in his bonnet about his preference for doing HASELL checks before academic steep turns. Over on the instructor forum he has been told by many others that he's wrong, but then starts spouting TEM and other headshrinker-horse$hit to justify his singular opinion.

Back to the thread, sorry but I don't have the weights of the T7 and GA11 to hand. But the GA11 must be rather like a Valley GT6 except with the 100-ser engine. No guns or sabrinas, so significantly lighter and more slippery than the barge.

There is still one on the Mil register as well (HHA's twin seater) which won't be directly affected by the grounding (Is it still valid?)

...Pitts

and you can't see the AI or the compass when straight and level.


Folks shorter than 2ft 6ins shouldn't be allowed to fly

Unload, spot roll out to nearest horizon, pitch on buffet nibble to level flight.

...and full power.

I seem to recall 'glide recovery' was a sequence in 'Stalling 1'

Careful with moving the throttle to max thrust from a 100-ser Avon if close to the buffet nibble though!

HHA's is a T8, currently engineless.

Enough of all this, any idea how our man is doing in hospital?