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-   -   Hawker Hunter Crash at Shoreham Airshow (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/566533-hawker-hunter-crash-shoreham-airshow.html)

LowObservable 11th Sep 2015 13:23

Homeopathic?

What are you implying, Sir? None of that nonsense here. And that camel in Aden was female, dammit!

Tourist 11th Sep 2015 14:57

Thai camel, was it......?:hmm:

Courtney Mil 11th Sep 2015 22:32

Point well made, Mel.

airpolice 12th Sep 2015 16:38

Shoreham Hunter about a month ago.
 
mrangryofwarlingham has sent me the following pictures as he has been unable to upload them himself.

http://mphutchison.co.uk/hunterA.jpg

http://mphutchison.co.uk/hunterB.jpg

John Farley 12th Sep 2015 17:57

CM

Please check you PMs

Ta JF

Courtney Mil 12th Sep 2015 22:41

Done, John. Thank you too.

Sorry, been off line for a while after the storms in this corner of France. Power finally restored.

iRaven 13th Sep 2015 13:31

That'll learn you Courtney - weather in Bucks has been fine and dandy!

No, you can't come back, you'll have to join the queue with the rest of the migrants! :ok:

PS. (Depsite the banter, hope things are now Ok?)

Courtney Mil 13th Sep 2015 13:57

Thanks, Raven. All good here now! :ok:

Trim Stab 13th Sep 2015 14:58

Might the pilot be prosecuted?
 
I have read allegations that the pilot began his manoeuvre at 200ft, instead of 500ft authorised for the display. If this is true, and it is shown to have contributed or caused the crash, might the pilot end up facing involuntary manslaughter charges?

Maybug 13th Sep 2015 16:06

500 feet
 
[QUOTE=Trim Stab;9115209]I have read allegations that the pilot began his manoeuvre at 200ft, instead of 500ft authorised for the display. If this is true, and it is shown to have contributed or caused the crash, might the pilot end up facing involuntary manslaughter charges?[/QUOTE

Let's hope that he was not guilty of an entry below his 500 feet gate.

Tourist 13th Sep 2015 16:54

This has been done to death already.....

My apologies, it was on the other thread.

I've never displayed as a civvy, but my understanding from what people are saying is that in civvy displaying it is acceptable, and normal, to begin a manoeuver from a flypast at 100-200' as long as the pitch up does not pass 30 degrees nose-up before the aircraft reaches the authorised height of 500' in this case.

This is purely what I have read on the other thread, rather than any first hand knowledge.

R4H 13th Sep 2015 16:54

Experts
 
Coroner's Court, lawyers, AAIB, police etc. Let's leave it to the experts to decide on manoeuvres, errors or not, liability, etc etc etc. Rumours Network is fine but Speculation Network on such sensitive issues!

betty swallox 13th Sep 2015 17:02

Tourist.

A very unfortunate turn of phrase...

Courtney Mil 13th Sep 2015 21:48

Sorry, I have remained silent too long.


Originally Posted by trim stab
I have read allegations that the pilot began his manoeuvre at 200ft, instead of 500ft authorised for the display. If this is true, and it is shown to have contributed or caused the crash, might the pilot end up facing involuntary manslaughter charges?

You should know better than to post inflammatory stuff like that. If, if if. I could say more, but if you don't get it now my words will not help. I expected better. Maybe delete your message and I'll delete my reference to it.

salad-dodger 13th Sep 2015 22:39


Sorry, I have remained silent too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trim stab
I have read allegations that the pilot began his manoeuvre at 200ft, instead of 500ft authorised for the display. If this is true, and it is shown to have contributed or caused the crash, might the pilot end up facing involuntary manslaughter charges?
You should know better than to post inflammatory stuff like that. If, if if. I could say more, but if you don't get it now my words will not help. I expected better. Maybe delete your message and I'll delete my reference to it.
It doesn't seem like an unreasonable question Courtney. I suspect that more than one person or groups of people will find themselves facing charges over this one.

S-D

Courtney Mil 13th Sep 2015 22:57

But no point in promoting such ideas on the Internet. And thanks for copying and pasting the thought again. It's not the question that's the probloblem, it's repeated reference to entry height, among other things. You all seem very certain of prescribed "gates". You do not know the entry height (gate?) for the manoeuvre so stop quoting it as if you all do.

That's all I have to say about that.

APG63 13th Sep 2015 23:52

CMil you are right. There is a miscomprehention around minimum fly by altitude and minimum aerobatic altitude. Convert to "agl" or "qfe" as you need. The run in was legal according to current regs and there is allowance for pulling up from there into a defined aerobatic manouver.

I could care less what some of the woodworms here think but they should at least get their facts right.

O-P 14th Sep 2015 01:35

CM, APG63,

100%

Get well soon AH. Last post on this thread until you get better, which I hope is soon.

SD

You are allowed to do a flypast at 200', at some point after that event you have to climb to 500' to complete a vertical display...Is it that point... I'll stop.

Trim Stab 14th Sep 2015 06:32


But no point in promoting such ideas on the Internet. And thanks for copying and pasting the thought again. It's not the question that's the probloblem, it's repeated reference to entry height, among other things. You all seem very certain of prescribed "gates". You do not know the entry height (gate?) for the manoeuvre so stop quoting it as if you all do.

That's all I have to say about that.
I never made any mention of "gates". I merely asked whether prosecution could follow if it were established that he had flown the display outside the authorised limits.

I don't know offhand of any precedents where a pilot has been prosecuted for deaths on the ground.

I am not "promoting" the idea - the police and CPS are not going to be the slightest bit swayed by comments on the internet.

I realise that some people on here probably know the pilot so are emotionally involved. I am sorry if my question is offensive to you.

Trim Stab 14th Sep 2015 06:40


You are allowed to do a flypast at 200', at some point after that event you have to climb to 500' to complete a vertical display...Is it that point... I'll stop.
How is the start of the vertical display defined? Do you have to be level at 500' at the correct entry speed? Or is it acceptable to be pitched nose up and still climbing through 500'? I read on another forum that the latter is acceptable within a 30 degree nose up limit - but then what is the correct entry speed? Are these all defined in the display authorisation, or are they "unwritten" rules?


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