Queen's Birthday Flypast
 

Pathetic. All cancelled because of the weather except the Red Arrows. Surely if somebody can lead a nine ship formation through slight clag then why can't our supa-dupa air force with all the latest gizmos do it? It's not as if they were massive formations, five at the most. I can understand the worry about Spitfires and Hurricanes but Tornadoes and Typhoons? come on.

Are they so tied up with FMS that they can't do it if it cannot be programmed.

That really is a poor show, chaps. What happens if some of the Queen's enemies need killing and its a bit cloudy?

Surely different weather criteria were considered resulting in alternative plans ... very disappointing.

I wonder what the cloud base was. The Reds looked lower than usual. Perhaps special dispensation was given for them. Anyway, nothing to be ashamed of. It was a lovely finale to the days pageantry.

Odd too that the helos were still expected - was it just me, or did the TV cameras miss them? Was the problem for the others the cloudbase in the join-up area or somesuch? Disappointing certainly.

Deliveries of carrots to all sqns to commence immediately? Or a well timed political message?

I suppose it is not as simple as all that (although a poor advertisement I grant you).

Part-time flypast pilots/crews vs full-time display pilots (and the associated rules) may be some of it, weather in the join-up area and along the route, and diversion fuel requirements back at a poor-weather base with fewer weekend divs as well I expect.

Weren't the Reds doing it out of Biggin (or at least into Biggin) - that probably helped.

Never been involved with mass fly pasts. Who makes the decision?

Not easy for sure. Many factors to be considered.

Splendid ground display anyway. Something that no other country in the world can do with such precision and traditional ceremony.

Queen's Birthday Flypast
 

"Part-time flypast pilots"

True, they never fly in formation to make a timed arrival at a agreed ht. ✈️✈️

Background Noise,

You may well be right, but how do you think it looks to the masses when we're trying to justify spending millions training pilots and eye watering amounts on aircraft and who don't necessarily understand the nuances?

Or, playing Devil's advocate, what capability we have left is now operated in part by 'part timers', only good for gin clear conditions, using all weather capable ac that aren't all weather capable and can only operate when close enough to a base to refuel. Putin must be laughing.

Regardless of the reason, the RAF Corporate Comms desk best drop whatever they are doing right now and get a line out explaining the rationale before we are completely humiliated at home, abroad and viewed as a mere irritant by those we might seek to go up against one day. I can't even begin to imagine what they are saying on ArRSe right now.

i don't suppose any member of the general public will think twice about it. The Red Arrows ended the show with their impressive and colourful fly past over the Mall and the cheerful crowd. Everyone happy. Except on here of course.

Simple answer - WEATHER!!!!

The fast jet flypast normally forms up at Southwold and transits via Chelmsford to London. BBMF and the Egg beaters join up on the route after holding at Cambridge and doing a track around Stansted's approach area.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...665B79193C.pdf

The routes take the formations between Stansted and London City and puts the formation on an almost direct line on the Mall. There is no way that they can go south as that is the approach for London City and Heathrow, while access from the north is blocked by Stansted and Luton's approach patterns.

I checked the weather reports for the route at the time that the BBC said the majority of the flypast was cancelled. Most of the flight path over Essex, visibility was poor!!!! The Red's of course do formation flying day in / day out in the formation that they flew so they were happy to go at minimums, while everybody else were to be in mixed formations where they are not so used to formatting on the lead aircraft. BBMF, are of course are very much VMC only.

Queen's Birthday Flypast
 

Do you know what I think is pathetic? The whining on here.

The decision to cancel will not have been taken lightly. I flew in a QBF in 2006 and I remember the briefing well and the pressure to perform. The formation leader will have wanted to put on a show as much as the next man. However he/she will also have been aware of how bad it would have looked in the event of a weather abort into airspace or to put a jet into downtown London. Instead of being lambasted I think he/she is probably to be congratulated for having the balls to make the call. As someone has already said the weather over London is not the only consideration. Getting there from their marshall area may well have been the problem.

This is in no way reflects the military's capability to wage war on our enemies. Peace time flypasts over densely populated areas, beneath some of the worlds busiest airspace are not quite the same thing and don't carry quite the same importance.

If the Queen had wanted some bombs to be dropped on the Palace that could have been done regardless of the weather.

If our enemies ever ask for a mass flypast of their capital city in iffy weather and we are unable to comply then I will happily admit that our military has gone down the toilet.

Grow up please gentlemen.

BV

If today's route was to be much as in that for 2010 in that link then, sitting across the M11 from Stansted, I can vouch for its having rained/drizzled all morning. It is still doing so and the Stansted departures are in cloud from a relatively low level. So it does indeed look as if conditions over Essex, rather than Central London, put a clamp on the formation join-up.

BV

Well said! Nice to see everyone quick to criticise while sat in the comfort of their armchairs. There are certain VMC rules to follow as I'm sure all of the experts here are aware. A plan was made that today was unachievable, the weather wasn't even close for it to be legal. This was a peacetime display, not a wartime sortie to deny the enemy or indeed replenish troops on the ground.

BV
 

I have no doubt that you are 100% correct BV.


However, the GBP will be wondering how come they pay £70M for a Typhoon and god knows how much for C-17's and Voyager, and they can't make it for a flypast with all their nav aids/radars, and yet the Reds can in elderly jets?


I suggest they won't understand your very correct rationale.


A poor PR day for the RAF, albeit undoubtedly the correct decision-thanks for the explanation.

Queen's Birthday Flypast
 

111

As soon as someone explains to the public that the decision was taken for public safety reasons then the whole problem will go away.

Actually what I expect will have happened in London today is that everyone said "wow the Red Arrows, isn't the RAF amazing" and then promptly carried on with their day.

Terrain following radar and wonder jets weren't designed to carry out formation flypasts. They were designed to blow stuff up. Just like they are in Iraq. As we speak.

BV

About a half-hour ago a C47, with invasion markings, flew over my house here in Essex, heading north. The weather isn't too good and he was sculling below the cloud base. Wonderful noise, and just enough time to get outside for a wonderful view. Nice one, chaps.

BV - Well said.
Does anyone know how the Reds got their 9 ship down through that cloud to what seemed to be a pretty low base or did they transit from somewhere VMC below? Or should we perhaps not ask?

There is a BF109 at Biggin Hill at the moment, it's a shame they couldn't have substituted that at the last minute.. :p