In which case give the role to someone with relevant experience and credibility from within the service. There are plenty of ACMs, AMs and AVMs happy to serve as Fg Offs on AEFs, I'm sure you could find one happy to step down to Gp Capt. However, if you are going to effectively turn the role in to a marketing position by giving it to somebody on the basis of their media access and credentials, it doesn't need to come with a commission regardless of who they are or how well they fill the uniform.

CV looks a hell of a lot better in her uniform than my old matron did.

I’m pretty sure I will rattle a few cages with this post but do so without any qualms. I served 17 good years in the Air Force leaving as a Sergeant with a reasonably good write-up. I have remained in aviation ever since and worked and played with many former and serving RAF types in my civilian life; commissioned and non commissioned alike.

My RAF experience in fact moulded my entire career, my early background as an ATC Cadet then a Boy Entrant being pointers to my early commitment. On the family side, My father was an Air Gunner in WWII and later (after I was enlisted as a Boy Entrant) was commissioned in the VR(T) branch later still becoming a Squadron Commander. Oh, just on the side my Grandfather was a RNAS CPO in the engineering branch during WWI.

I have always held the Air Force in high esteem but, reading this topic has left me dismayed and wondering where many, a percentage at least whom I assume have a military background, have come from.

To read many of the comments here one would be excused believing that an honorary appointment is something new in British military structure; it is not, although admittedly more frequently encountered with the army and then mostly filled by Royals. It needs be considered that an appointee to an honorary position, especially in the Air Force where honorary appointments are few, is generally of one who has a profile and ethos that places them in a position of respect and has been selected to fill that position by virtue of what is hoped that individual can bring to the table. There are great expectations of the chosen individual who gets no payment for filling the post though he or she can be expected to devote quite some time furthering the needs of their specific field of interest. I would also fully expect to find Group Captain Vorderman has to dip into her own resources from time to time.

There are some rather distracting comparisons posted here. To me there seem to be many not thinking this out in rational terms and there is an awful lot of comparing apples with oranges. Typically “there are plenty of ACMs, AMs and AVMs happy to serve as Fg Offs on AEF”. True certainly but (and I stand to be corrected here) I believe they will draw pay for periods of official duty, and I think it is also pretty reasonable to suggest their interest is as much in flying for the sheer pleasure of it as for youth work. I venture to suggest it would be hard to find an ACM, AM or AVM who has the skill set, personality, network of contacts and experience that those making the appointment identified as desirable when appointing Group Captain Vorderman

Then there are the rants by some that she should attend formal basic training in order to carry the rank and wear the uniform. I rather suspect she has plenty of advisers guiding her on necessary subtleties’ and anyhow, at the end of the day, she is not going to take parades, march in file or listen to charges, it’s not part of her remit. Nor is she the cause of people stagnating in promotion lists or jumping the waiting list for an OMQ. She is a person who has been appointed to a position that has its’ own rather special requirements and guidelines. She wears her uniform well and in fact looks better turned out than many serving officers.

The following words alone makes her deserving of some respect “Ms Vorderman, 53, has long been associated with RAF linked charities including the Royal Air Forces Association, the RAF Benevolent Fund and the Bomber Command Memorial committee, leading the Salute Area in Green Park when the Queen unveiled the memorial in June 2012.”

I really think people should look at the issue with a little more perspective rather than let their own petty gripes or insecurities get the better of them.

Per ardua ad astra

Didn't ruffle my feathers - very well put, I thought Q-RTF-X

About the only negative re Gp Capt Vordeman's appointment I can think of is my suspicion that her standing as a science/technology role model, esp to young women, is perhaps best recognised by an age-group slightly older than that targeted by the RAF or ATC for recruitment. But thats small stuff: overall, I'm in favour.

I see Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy is another such ambassador appointment. Haven't heard any odd remarks about that one....

Although I did hear a remark from a lady (sic) that she'd like to see Sir Chris' bum in tight mess kit trousers....... :eek::E

As this thread is discussing many aspects of honorary ranks in the RAF, may be allowed to invade to ask a question which I have wondered about for many years.

A friend of mine, sadly no longer with us, was a medical doctor and held a fairly high position in the Biological Warfare Establishment at Porton. As such he traveled extensively and, whenever possible, he had to use RAF transport for security reasons. As a civil servant he told me that he held an honorary rank of Air Commodore and often speculated that, in the unlikely event of a diversion when civilian passengers had to be put up overnight, that he might have to take responsibility for them as the senior officer on board. Presumably in the air, the captain would be in command.

Was this just conjecture on his part or could it have happened?

And what about the good old days when we actually had hospitals. Was not unusual to see an air rank surgeon or whatever propped up against the bar with junior ranks on first name terms. I would not have though any of them had done much of the Cranwell experience. I remember it always irked one particular Stn Cdr at Halton when he was put in his place by a higher rank when he had a go over Friday night shenanigans in the nurses bar. Always reminded me a bit like MASH.

As a very junior Assistant Experimental Officer I was posted to RAF Nicosia in 1961 and informed at Hendon [on 1st April!] that I was senior officer passenger on the Britannia and handed a brief case of despatches to deliver.

I had never met Equivalent Military Rank before. I managed to slope shoulders, a skill that I worked on thereafter.

The idea of being i/c hairy a*sed WOs was terrifying [and still is].

I suspect he meant that he had an equivalent military rank, as mentioned by langleybaston above, rather than an honorary rank.

CV looks a hell of a lot better in her uniform than my old matron did. - Air Pig

Only "in"!?:uhoh:

Jack

Will being an honorary Gp Capt. assist CV in her solo round the world flight?

Ps, I too think she will be an asset and wish her all the best.

Not many know this, Beaches Hotel, Prestatyn have a Carol Vorderman suite with photos around the walls:E

So you mean you can get to sleep with C..V...

Com'on, sleeping would be a waste......

20,000 plus views..... I do wonder if Group Captain Boris Johnson would draw such attention......

:p

NutLoose, Boris would have to have a bloody haircut before being allowed ANYWHERE near a Military uniform. :mad:

As a former-VRT officer, now a CI, I'd like to offer a couple of points to this long, drawn out and frequently rambling discussion.

It seems to me that HQ Air cadets is finally getting into the hearts and minds arena with these appointments. It started a few years ago when they issued all the CI's with ATC-badged sports shirts and sweatshirts. Up to then, adult staff had nothing, and this lead to a whole shimmy of dress - some good some not.This simple act has given us much more of a corporate identity, and unit pride.

Now they have appointed two people who are Corps ambassadors:D
Anything that boosts the Corps image and standing in the wider world must be seen as a positive step, if only that it makes it that much harder for the bean counters to scrap the whole organisation as a cost saving measure.

Like the rest of the 4,000 or so ATC staff, these two people will be giving up their time to 'promote an interest in the RAF' (to paraphrase the Corps ideals). Surely that is something worth doing?

I'm sure many of you out there will have a view on this. Over to you!

@Teetering Head,

Now where is the rest of that vidcap......the full length cap lol not with Chris Plummer in :) RIP to Susannah though the other year.

So hopefully we will see Carol at RIAT (as received email announcing the ticket sales start now) as Waddo will not be happening.

Cheers

Last year she was at RIAT and Cosford, amongst other things talking to cadets and staff. Maybe that's where the idea started.

And I'll see what I can do about that Vidcap chopper, may need to consult with BEag's cardiologist first though! :ok:

teeteringhead, no need thanks. I have the DVD.....:ok:

Q-RTF-X,

An excellent post above. I only have 30+ years RAF service but absolutely agree that both Sir Chris and Carol are superb selections for honorary appointments. It would be an absolute pleasure to meet or work with either of them and in any capacity.

I would certainly have a different view if our very senior leadership were ever stupid enough to go for a 'yoof culture tattooed chimp from I'm a Dancing Chef in the Jungle celebrity land' but that's just me.

:D:D:D jhdkfjsdlfsdlfksdfk

Party Animal
Oh yes!! ... brilliant :D:D:D

@Teeterhead and Beags

FOund the full length version :D down the page lol

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...32-swos-2.html

Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving, and Black Friday etc etc :)

Looks like the new gp capt wasn't far away last night

Halton

Brilliant - and who is the 3*?

Impressive music by Devon and Somerset Wing.

YouTube Video

AMP - Baz North.

Thanks - good to see the competition supported at a high level. The cadets - simply excellent, and a great example of the yoof of today. They, and their parents and instructors, should be very proud.

Nice to see these people giving up their time help, but what do these people actually do?


I am a little confused as to their purpose?


Don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of getting the ACO recognised..I just don't understand - are they to inspire the current cadets, encourage financial backers or recruit new Cadets.
If it's the latter, then I don't think I have see either of them in any sort of campaign.

I don't think she was appointed to inspire the cadets because as far as I can see, apart for a select few, it hasn't been publicised within.
My daughter has been an Air Cadet for well over three years (she's now an SNCO and very keen to join the RAF as a career) and she hasn't been made aware of Ms. Vorderman's role or even who she is.

She will be Shy, have no doubt. The announcement was only formally made on (I think) 20th November, and her (CV's) programme is in its very early stages.

She is keen to do lots and I'm sure she will.

It's been all over Air Cadet websites and social meeja, and promulgated down the Chain of Command. But you can never guarantee info being passed on .......

Did she know about Chris Hoy?

Having viewed this weeks Sun newspaper I would like to propose that Madonna be offered a similar position. The position she has assumed on the pages of the Sun leads me to believe she would be perfect for the job.

You have a good point there.

Madonna has two good points.

Any position with Madonna will be ok by me:)

True, it might be a local issue. I just asked her about Chris Hoy. She had little idea about who he is.

Kids eh! :ugh:

I meant local as in unit level... she's a bright enough kid.

Most, if not all, here will disagree. But I don't think it's appropriate. But there we are :hmm:

Ok Jindabyne, Who would you propose for the role, or if you consider using a 'celebrity' to do this is not 'appropriate', how would you get a similar amount of publicity for the Air Cadets for the same expenditure?