More Medals/Bar!
 

Please excuse the link to 'another website' ...

Medals Review final report - More Medals! | Army Rumour Service

It also seems to suggest that the award of the LS&GC be 'harmonised' ... to include officers?

Good grief

What constitutes "good conduct" for an officer (for issue of the LS&GC award)? Not getting caught, imbibing only fruit juice at happy hour, actually reading GASOs and the FOB when signing...so much restraint required...so much high spirits to be missed (aka vandalism when applied to ORs):rolleyes:

Mister B

An officer's Good Conduct is implicit, and Long Service isn't exactly meritorious. There's a world of difference between Terms of Service and expectations for officers/ORs. I still wouldn't mind having one, though ;)

LS&GC award - Hmm. Would eight years, one or two tea without tea or biscuits and banned from the bar for a week exclude one? Thought so :(

@ Basil ... Get some in!! :sad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Se..._Conduct_Medal
Hmm ... Formal Letter from Phil Lag**on and Banned from the Bar. Damn! ;)

I'd be interested to know why this end date was selected.

I did hear a vicious rumour a few weeks ago that consideration was being given to re-instating the GSM. If correct, and the rumour wasn't actually relating to what's mentioned here, it would seem to make sense given the number of smaller ad hoc operations that might otherwise qualify for some sort of medallic recognition but fall short of a campaign medal.

Personally, I would welcome a slight relaxing of the rules and have always thought we have been somewhat parsimonious in our medals policy. I don't advocate ribbons for this and that, but if people are deploying on a named operation, then why not. I've always enjoyed seeing people in No 1s and 5s with ribbons / medals, it's a sort of visual representation of what they have done as an individual and what the Services have been up to, often out of sight of much of the population. And it often gives rise to some very interesting stories over a beer afterwards. Plus, I've always found the Govt's rules on 'double medalling' to be, shall we say, liberally interpreted when required; after all, you win a medal in the Olympics, why should you also get another medal for just doing your job and for which you have already been rewarded.

On the other hand, if I ended up qualifying for an LS&GC, well frankly, I think that would be the end of any credibility associated with it :ok:

... dare one suggest the detachment dates of a (now) VSO to ASI ....:hmm:

.... ooh you cynical b****h Teeters

Teeters, think you may have hit the nail on the head, hope to meet him, I'll help him look for the rosette that has obviously fallen off.

I seem to recall the rationale behind Officers not receiving the LSGC is that those without would be conspicuous and foster disrespect from the ranks.

On a similar vein, it is my understanding that all medals awarded to Commonwealth servicemen (and women) are authorised through a UK Govt dept and ultimately signed off by HM. So, it is with interest that UK serviceman are not recognised for a current det in the Mid East, where the Canadian counterparts are........... Are there any other anomalies that personnel are aware of where UK troops are not recognised v other Commonwealth troops?

I'm sure TTN will know the complete answer, but ISTR that the "Vietnam" clasp to GSM 1962 was only awarded to Aussies and Kiwis.

Assuming - like most GSM clasps - its qualification was "geographical", then there must have been a small number of Brits - Embassy staff? - who theoretically qualified.

Over to you TTN :ok:

MPN11, Formal Letter AND Banned from the Bar :cool:

I am humbled ;)

I think I am correct in saying that the 'South Vietnam' clasp to the 1962 GSM was only awarded to Australian troops, for 30 days qualifying service in the theatre between 24 May 62 and 29 May 64. Only 70 were awarded. Subsequent service was recognised by the award of the Vietnam Medal 1964, which was an Australian issue (bearing the Queen's head) , but was also awarded to New Zealand personnel. As well as embassy staff mentioned by teeteringhead I think it is generally believed that UK special forces operated in Vietnam at various times, but certainly none was given either of the aforementioned medals, probably for political reasons.

With regard to the new awards I am particularly interested in the new clasp 'Cyprus' to the 1962 GSM, which brings the total clasps awarded to this medal to 14. Also the 'Berlin Airlift' clasp to the earlier GSM is a very welcome, if somewhat belated award, particularly as the Americans recognised the operation with a separate medal at the time.

Just curious, but if one serves for 2 qualifying periods during the overall qualifying dates, does one get a bar or some other endorsement ?

The reverse logic applies to enlisted personnel of a certain age minus an LS&GC, you can usually rely on them to be near the bar fight if not actually start it at the Remembrance day curry lunch.

Just so. I waded through all the paperwork from different MoD departments/Services in the AFD (yes, I ran that sort of office) to brief ACAS, and that was indeed one of the major objections. There were others, as I noted upthread.

"Wot ? More bleedin' gongs to polish !"

(not quite the right attitude, but.....)

Friend of mine did lots of Ops but got no medals 'cause they were n't :)

Then what about Brixmis? If anyone in Germany should've had a medal . . .

Surprised no one has suggested a QRA medal. Just think, Bomber Command, Fighter Command, RAFG, Strike Command clasps. :)

I had a look at the full report earlier, all 70 pages of it. Given the nature of the subject, I was rather surprised to read statements that went along the lines of 'this isn't a priority for people at the moment'.

So I had a closer look at who wrote and contributed to said report. Guess what? There appeared to be rather limited input from those at the coal face, for whom the issue of medallic recognition is most relevant. There was, however, an awful lot of input from politicians, career civil servants and VVVSOs who I would feel safe in arguing wouldn't know one end of a modern rifle from another. It does rather make one wonder :suspect:

No bar on the medal itself, but of course the total time served all counts toward qualification for the Accumulated Service Medal. The 2011 issue of this medal, which is almost identical to the earlier award other than an extra stripe on the ribbon, is now awarded after a total of 720 days accumulated service (previously 1080 days). A bar to the ACSM can be awarded for a further 720 days accumulated service!

PN - re the QRA medal - I trust your tongue is firmly in your cheek ;)

MPN11 :D :D :D

Sorry TTN but my bad, I was thinking of the S.A.M. as I know of several people who, now that the period has been extended, carried out 2 full qualifying detachments on ASI.

I understood that as the Falklands war had its own medal, time done did not count towards the ACM.

NATO medals, such as the one issued for the Former Yugoslavia, attract a brass numeral on the ribbon for multiple tours in the same qualifying period. The highest number I have seen on an FRY medal ribbon is an 8 (RLC - I think he was a driver).

Mick, you are quite correct. As a general rule, if a medal has been issued with a start and stop date (South Atlantic, Rhodesia (although that is a bit of a funny in itself), Gulf Medal (1990-91)), these do not count towards the award of the ACSM, neither do UN/NATO tours. In simple terms, qualifying periods are for any award of an OSM, Telic or GSM 1962 but there are only certain qualifying bars, from memory, anything pre 1969 doesn't count.

Another review, and still no Cold War medal....

Sloppy Link,


Absolutely right.


The 'accumulated' bit only counts for clasps issued from 1969, so South Arabia - that's Aden for those old enough to remember - Borneo, Malay Peninsula don't qualify.


I seem to recall that the Accumulated Service Medal was lobbied for because of the many repeat visits to Northern Ireland that were not otherwise recognised. This second medal - and I have no bitch about it per se - drives a coach and horses through the argument that we only issue one medal for each campaign. Mind you, there were two for Korea and, if you got your timing right, you could have a pair for Brunei/Borneo. Again after lobbying, the Pingat Jasi Malaysia (PJM) was approved for 'unrestricted wear' three or four years ago and does add a real bit of colour.


As an aside, my wife's station commander (at a secret base in Rutland) always used to say that medals looked nice but they didn't pay the mortgage. Hamish Mahaddie, pathfinder extraordinary, tells that after an investiture at t'Buck House, his mates and he adjourned for some refreshment, when he was asked by a lady what his medals were (they started with a DSO and went downhill from there). He recounts that he looked her in the eye and said: 'Madam, I've no idea, they were on the uniform when I bought it'.


Old Duffer

TTN, Indeed.

Goes with the RAFG, NEAF and NS Medals.

In fact, I wonder where the alternative medal market actually has these already.

On medals (and Walts) there was an old boy featured on TV as the youngest sailor on D-day; he was 16 I think which makes him 86. Now he had a chest full of gongs. I couldn't make out how many stars he had but I did wonder how, at 16 or 17 by war end, he had at least 4 campaign stars.

O-D, as ever, you are correct.

One was in Whitehall when the ACSM was being staffed, and it was very much Army and NI driven. The argument could be (and often was!) summarised thus:

Flt Lt Flashheart flies one Harrier sortie in South Atlantic, one Buccaneer sortie in Lebanon, and one Tonka sortie in GW1 - result: 3 medals.

Pte Baldrick meanwhile, does 4 months in NI every other year for 20 years - result: 1 medal

Teeters
(GSM and 2 clasps (30 years apart!), ACSM and bar!) ;)

TTN,

I knew a Yorkshire man that appended CDM to his name. A CDM and bar would be a good award to V-force aircrew. For those that flew actual QRA missions a MB.

For the kipper fleet (Kinloss) a JP or (St Mawgan) a CP.

:)

Can I get a 'Volcano Club' bar for my S.A.M? I was there twice during the period.

PN - I mis-read that first time round. For a brief moment I thought you were talking about launching QRA against Main Building and I experienced a warm glow and a brief surge of morale at the idea :ok:

Then I re-read it and my morale settled back down quicker than a mushroom cloud evaporating :sad:

teeteringhead ... never saw that paper. Perhaps it was "Army Eyes Only"?

Still believe the ACSM [?] was a good decision, though. Too many guys 'suffered' long enough to deserve it.

Melchett01 ... launching Q against MB is surely a nugatory operation? When did MoD ever get off the ground?

One thing that puzzles me, I am sure when I was at MPA/RAF Mt Pleasant for first 4 months of 1986 it was still deemed an "operational" tour/posting/whatever. It was still thought possible that a rogue Argie squadron commander might launch an unauthorised strike on the Falklands so it was deemed to be a bit "dangerous", but not even a GSM to sully the pristine chest of my No1 uniform. A bit late to be bothered now, but there do seem to be oddities in the system.

28 years in light blue.

Two wars in my time - Falklands and GW1.

For both I was serving as a "Whitehall Warrior".

Result? Completely bare tunic!

Do I care? No!

Best 28 years I ever spent in my life!

(Glad I'm not in now though!)

P-N , unlikely, but not impossible. He gets the France & Germany Star for his efforts on D Day. Later his ship is sent to the Far East and on the way sees active service in the Eastern Med, which earns him the Italy Star, then his Far East service earns him either the Burma Star or the Pacific Star (but not both). Add on his 1939-45 Star and you have your four campaign stars.

Either that or he was dissatisfied with what he had and bought a few more to augment his group!

Rather than issue more gongs, how about giving us a day to day uniform where you can wear ribbons. My half dozen only ever get aired at the odd Dining In, the Summer Ball, the Annual Cockers P and a hats on discussion with no tea and biscuits!

Bring back a derivative of Battle Dress (you know the one that the Public recognise and with a bit of heritage behind it!!). Or put ribbon bars on our nasty polyester shirts!

LJ

I didn't realise the UK didn't have that like they do here in Aus.
That's surprising to me.

I was in over here at a time when very few had any medals, you had the last of the Vietnam era soldiers
so most had nothing. Now you have quite a few with 3 rows and most with two rows.

Personally looking at the UK, just my HO but I think the UK is too tight on the medal front
(and the US over the top the other way, medal or badge for everything !).

Or perhaps a one for not flying as in the RAFG Jag force.

And 8 years of RAF Odihams food in the 70's must have been above and beyond the call of duty..

And silver jubilee medals for all :p