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Dumb question probably guys but I keep seeing these 'QAIC' cadets in flying suits with presentations and stuff on Twitter and things what is this? Is it some new flying scholarship? Thanks

It's this.....

http://www.qaic.org/Pages/AboutTheCourse.php

Auster,

That link does not tell us very much about the course aim and content! In fact, I would suggest it is just "yuck - speak"!

Ref: my post #2194

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...e%2086%20O.pdf

Para 5 says:

The following significant issues were identified:

a. Aircraft Document Set (ADS):

i. lack of ADS configuration control across glider maintenance sites.

ii. workforce carrying unauthorised maintenance and modification activities eg. Introduction of an elevator hinge pin modification that was designed and carried out by the maintenance organisation without authorisation and engineering authority input.

iii. independent inspections not being carried out on systems vital for the safety of the aircraft.

b. Progression of SI(T)s and F765s had not been managed effectively.

c. Lack of an effective Quality Management System.

6. Further investigation revealed that these concerns were not exhaustive and that there were a significant number of other contributing factors that led the Glider EA to state he was unable to confirm the type airworthiness of the fleets...


That's more than "a lack of accurate record-keeping"! Over the past 2 years many stones were uncovered to find many issues over and above this Duty Holder Advice Note as I understand it. Also, the Grob 109B and the Vigilant TMk1 are not identical as far as I'm aware - the Viggi has a reconfigured fuel system and undercarriage mods for a higher AUW? So I'm afraid Verdun Luck's letter is slightly off the mark in my humble opinion.

LJ :ok:

Bill Macgillivray

This might be a bit more informative - pages 20-22
http://www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/rafc...1A7728620E.pdf

Leon
 

If you're going to quote the DHAN verbatim. Quote it verbatim. Para 5. States 'hinge pin', not hinge, bit of a difference I feel.

Why oh why

My apologies. I couldn't cut and paste from the PDF and so I quickly typed it - pure mistake and now amended!

LJ :ooh:

LJ
I note that the reference to the elevator hinge pin is in the paragraph headed a Aircraft Document Set this implies to me that the problem was one of documentation rather than the pin being unsuitable for use. It would be interesting to know if the solution to this particular issue is to retrospectively approve the mod or to re fit the original part - do you happen to know ?

paras b and c look like paperwork issues as well.

I can see that the paperwork needs to be correct to ensure airworthiness but would love to know if there was a fleet of serviceable aircraft with a paperwork problem or a fleet of problem aircraft grounded for 2 years

That is the crux of the matter and until something less sketchy is published there will continue to be speculation about the motives behind all this.

After all the sexing up of dossiers has some history.......


MP - An ex C Cat CGI from the seventies

Air Cadet magazine
 

Hope you were impressed with the 'content' Bill.

Apart from the multitude of 'non flying',and 'virtual' activity for Cadets there were two articles that stood out; one on quality of information and the other on a statement of the current (as was ) gliding training.

The article on the Battle of Britain display at Capel le ferne mentions one
Fl Lt G Mellum 94 (but nothing more).
I assume this is in fact Sqdn Ldr Geoffrey Wellum DFC who was with 92 Sqdn at Biggin Hill during the battle;was one of the youngest pilots in the battle,went on to fly offensive sweeps over France before flying a Spitfire into Malta,and then tested Typhoons on a 'rest tour'.Does anyone at Air Cadet know anything about our history or the basic facts!!
There was then an article about 'Motivational Flight Package' at the end of which the 'instructor' who attended stated that the exercise was incredibly useful 'especially the spin awareness training which is something we do not tackle within the Air Cadet Gliding domain'!!
Just about sums up the way things are now.

Megapete

The 64,000 dollar question - I doubt that the subject pin was unsuitable just as I doubt that many of the Gliders were in any way unsafe to fly(before they were grounded),they are really simple a/c which spend most of their flying lives at less than 70kts.
There were probably 3 or 4 ways of tackling the problem,but that would have needed natural leaders in charge and of course would not have suited the various personal and MOD agendas.
As I have said before - the lack of communication with the VGS personnel over the last two years speaks volumes about the real aims/agendas during the 2 year 'pause' - they did not want to have to answer searching questions.
Every maintenance organisation has paperwork/procedural issues - nobody is perfect and sometimes need strong leadership and direction to keep up with modern/current ways of doing things.
It would be easy to get 'hung out to dry' if ones company had failed to keep up with up to date procedures but it was a huge failing of whoever was supposed to have oversight of the maintenance side of ACO gliders.


As I previously posted - I had heard that there might also have been a problem with some VGS Glider Hangars (not meeting MAA standards ?) but have not seen that mentioned yet !

I still think the MGSP maintenance regime was best. It offered a documented, rolling Minor/Major maintenance programme, minor repairs done on site by qualified tradesmen overseen by qualified experienced supervisors, major repairs removed from site and returned to the main servicing site for completion or deep servicing and spare airframes which could be swapped out if required to minimise the impact on the VGS. And an independent audit programme...................done by the Central function.

Perfect................... So lets 'bin' that.

Arc

but as its been previously stated, some of the issues stem from the very same blue suited regime you feel was perfect.

Now the closing date of the 31st March has passed, It would be interesting to find out the results of the forms that had to be filled out by all staff affected by the cull......

Why oh Why

The MGSP regime pre-dated the CGMF regime you are referring to.........

DO try and keep up old chap :D

Arc

MGSP North
 

Arc
:ok: I lived at Dishforth, home of MGSP North, just two doors down from the SNCO i/c. Great bunch of professional SERVICE engineers

Arc
 

And what years did your beloved MGSP operate

The RAF Dishforth based MGSP were certainly in residence in the mid '70's /early '80's.

One of the MGSP SNCO's was an accomplished poacher. His wife worked in the Dishforth feeder and provided us with some 'interesting' lunches that the RAF Leeming catering office knew nothing about.

MGSP
 

The strength of the MGSP were they were a travelling 'team' complete with a Bedford lorry load of spares and in-house duplicate inspections.
They could repair the classic 'wheel box' incidents on-site and left your fleet looking spick and span and very fit for for purpose.
The canvas hangars also benefited from their attention and were kept in good condition.
The system was perfect, and anything requiring a 'duplicate' completed at the time.
If one happened to go to the school midweek whilst they were in attendance it was quite a shock to see the machines in bits and on trestles getting expert attention.
Come friday evening they were all back in service and duly signed off,or a replacement in place.
But then this was a truly quality service, provided by highly trained and motivated staff usually led by a Chief Tech;i do not recall a time when the w-end flyers were let down by this system. Sadly in most cases we never met them but their reputation was of the highest order.
And Why oh Why the term 'beloved' did not exist, they were simply a LEGEND!

Pobjoy. As per my question to Arc. When was this utopian engineering era


QUOTE=POBJOY;9334478]The strength of the MGSP were they were a travelling 'team' complete with a Bedford lorry load of spares and in-house duplicate inspections.
They could repair the classic 'wheel box' incidents on-site and left your fleet looking spick and span and very fit for for purpose.
The canvas hangars also benefited from their attention and were kept in good condition.
The system was perfect, and anything requiring a 'duplicate' completed at the time.
If one happened to go to the school midweek whilst they were in attendance it was quite a shock to see the machines in bits and on trestles getting expert attention.
Come friday evening they were all back in service and duly signed off,or a replacement in place.
But then this was a truly quality service, provided by highly trained and motivated staff usually led by a Chief Tech;i do not recall a time when the w-end flyers were let down by this system. Sadly in most cases we never met them but their reputation was of the highest order.
And Why oh Why the term 'beloved' did not exist, they were simply a LEGEND![/QUOTE]

MGSP
 

50's-80's. The first casualties were the 'Bessonneu' hangars which needed regular servicing to keep them going.
I had defected to power by the the time the glass ships arrived,but no doubt the MGSP were aligned to the wood fleet.
Spares were not a problem as Slingsby used common parts on so many of their products,and of course the machines were low tech.
We have yet to have evidence of what problems are being found in the Viking fleet,but i suspect it will be 'flagged up' to fit the situation.

MSGP
 

Y.O.Y.
:=I feel as if i'm feeding a troll, but l do intensely dislike the way in which you use the phrase "Utopian Engineering Era" in an almost sneering manner and which I consider offensive. You are, in modern parlance "dissing'" people that I personally knew to be good, conscientious engineers who provided a service second to none by comparison with the apparent lack of engineering professionalism shown by the Serco engineers and the incompetence of the uniformed people who were supposed to oversee the work on behalf of the RAF.

To answer your question AFAIR MGSP North was winding down when I was posted in late '83

A342

No more CGIs?
 

One hears on the jungle drums that the rank of CGI is to be done away with and those currently in that position are to be given the option of going into uniform or leaving (like it or lump it in other words). I assume this would mean an ACO NCO rank.

I realise this has been briefly mentioned before but looks a bit more definite now. Has anyone else heard anything confirming this change?

Just to add, personally I'm against the move as I know more than one CGI who would have had no interest in donning the blue stuff but were very capable instructors. Therefore, they would likely have been lost to the ACO.

Why Oh Why

I think MGSP Operated from the mid 1960's to about mid 1980's. I don't believe they maintained the glass ships so on that basis the demise of the wood fleet around then ties in with the timescales.

Nice guys and a skilled group tradesmen to boot.

OK this was wood and not glass so different technologies but you can teach the technology - it's about how you use it, eh !

Arc

No more CGIs
 

The world has gone mad!!

What on earth are they thinking?? The Staff Cadets and junior instructors are/were the life blood of Air Cadet gliding operations.

On the airfield they wear flying suits just like the commissioned staff - they do not need uniforms for goodness sake.

When I became a commissioned officer at a Gliding School (having been a Staff Cadet and CGI) I seem to remember wearing my uniform when traveling to the airfield, then I changed into my flying suit. I then changed into uniform for going into the mess at lunchtimes. When the Officers' Mess closed (along with the rest of the airfield) I traveled to the airfield in my flying suit and we all looked the same.

When I went to Syerston for recategorisation I was most surprised to see Mess users wearing growbags. I suppose a sign of the times!!

If I was a CGI I would certainly not give any consideration to becoming an adult NCO in the Air Cadets. My old squadron adult Warrant Officer would turn in his grave at the very thought. He was a CPO on minesweepers during the second war and had also fought in the first war. His medal ribbons were a sight to behold and always caused lots of discussion in the SNCO Mess wherever we went to camp!!

There were some very senior and experienced Gliding Instructors on my Gliding School who did an excellent job as CGIs. They did not need the hassle of donning blue uniforms, and despite some of them having been offered commissions, they were very happy just doing what they were good at - instructing young people to go solo.

A Mess, at Syerston? of course it is... Oh you mean an Offs Mess. I wonder if Pippa wants to rebuild it in order to keep the hoi-poloi SNCO instructors in their place (shh.. you know? the ones that used to be.... CGI's)

ACO 'going mad'
 

Frelon They have already gone mad,that is why the organisation is unable to heal itself from the self inflicted wounds.
Standard (poor company tactic) close the old system (which in this case was not broke) flag up the NEW system and ensure no one around to query the incompetence.
Parachute in some senior spokespersons's to talk to the press and media circus and 'hey presto' all is well and much safer !!
We all know it is utter B...s,and those running this fiasco are complete nit wits,but those at the very top have no idea what it is all about anyway so rely on the 'so-called' commanders in post to appraise them.
The RAF/MOD have enough problems in the real defence system to worry about so the Air Cadets are way down the lists of concern.
If i were a CGI i would be contacting the scouts who are looking to expand their 'Air' bit and offering my experience to them. I also suspect the no Civilian bit is being used to fill the 'uniform' gap in the normal Cadet Squadrons.
Either way it shows a complete lack of knowledge on the part of HQ ATC as to where a huge part of the input came from and how well they served the system safely for decades.
As stated before this sorry bunch of no-hopers at the top would never have passed Staff Cadet selection in our day. Dib Dib Dib.
I feel deeply for those Cadets who were deprived of a life changing experience and have been so badly let down. IT IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISGRACE.

Criminal act (s)
 

A question for those who profess to have some knowledge of the law. If I, as a UK citizen resident in one part of the UK, Northern Ireland, or maybe Scotland or possibly Wales, say, or even a county in England like, say, Cumbria, were to have suspicions that a crime or series of crimes had taken place in another part of the UK in, shall we say, Nottinghamshire, and I had no proof of such, nor indeed what particular crime or crimes had been committed but DID have various statements from official sources that, on being read MIGHT indicate that a crime or crimes had been committed, could I report such to the appropriate county police force?

If that were to be so, would it complicate matters if such alleged crime or crimes had been committed on MoD land by civilians, but not investigated by the appropriate Provost Marshall of the military arm concerned and whose property had been affected? - Just asking:confused:

Re the above (and very much tongue in cheek...)


Have you been mis-sold PPI...Plastic Plane Inspection....


Then contact ACME Claims direct for a no win no fee service....:E

PPI
 

Would that particular ACME be Air Cadet Mis-managers Extraordinaire?

Southern Sailplanes' planning application apparently turned down for additional hangars/workshops.


7700

I'm pretty sure the 'us and them' segregation at Syerston happened well before JM came on the scene... Last time I was there, there was a sign on the door of the crewroom in the tower decreeing that visiting instructors (irrespective of rank) were not allowed in at lunch time.

Visiting Officers and CGIs had to spend their down-time in the trainee crewroom with the cadets on scholarships. I kid you not.

The separation rule certainly in place since at least 1981......

Arc

I find the idea to force civvies into uniform a bit strange. Last August the Air Commodore told me categorically that civilian staff would not be pressured into taking up NCO / officer status. Her words being along the lines of 'rather have them happy in civvies than miserable in blue'.

Admittedly this was for staff on ATC squadrons, but surely the sentiment stays the same. It rather tends to support another statement made to me by a VSO about senior officers running their own little fiefdoms within the corps.....

Frst post....
 

Been at Syerston today.

CGS flying 3 of our Cadets, in Vigilants. 5 through 'recovery', only two available.. Nice day for the kids.

Understand 8 Vikings going through same process.

No word on progress of the re organisaton. Not much enthusiasm expressed either.. Lots of cars present, nice modern buildings, Lots of folk in clean modern, warm comfortable offices.

2 people seen in hanger, mainly full of Vigilants. Not many Vikings to be seen...

Nice Viking and Vigilant PTT, simulators, two of each in old 644 building, kids enjoyed.

Lots of photos taken, suspect promo article on progress of Air Cadet Gliding recovery to appear soon?

Southern Sailplanes have been rejected on multiple grounds on planning permission including logistical capabilities with where Membury is, employment abilities and actual exceptional need for hangers on a greenfield site as well as the usual noise and AONB considerations. All documents are viewable publically on the West Berkshire Council Website 16/00142/OUTMAJ

Interestingly a report states that the MOD contract which would obviously be for the Vikings has not been shared with the council. What's to hide?

Yet another setback and letdown for the cadets. When will it end?

Planesandthings

Pity it isn't closer to the M4.

The debate into the 'Future of Gliding and the Air Cadet Organisation' takes place next Wed 13th April, 1100-1130, in Westminster Hall.

I've emailed my MP. Even trying to keep it brief and sticking to the highlights and the facts, it reads like a rant.

If there is a move to fully militarise all volunteers, that would be in keeping with a strategy to ensure the long-term collapse of the gliding organisation. The list of hoops that an adult volunteer will have to jump through will deter sufficient numbers, and in years to come the whole thing can be wound up owing to lack of volunteer support. Someone will get a mention on a New Year's Honours List for their sterling services to the ACO and the nation's youth...

Yep,
Has all the hallmarks of 'constructive dismisal' if that is the intent? then the blame can be thrown back at the volunteers. So no need to rush with the glider recovery program if the new organisation shows signs of an unsustainable manning shortfall.

Flug

I heard that the "must be in uniform to fly" rule was (yet another) MAA diktat.

Apart from the special case of contractors' personnel (before anyone mentions MFTS) you have to be in uniform apparently to fly military aircraft. And the VGS fleet are just that; unlike the Tutors they don't even have a "shadow" civvy registration.....