It seems we are supplying erm,,, taxis? ;)


Brit troop carriers sent to Ukraine « Express & Star

I'm guessing its better than MRE's and uniforms, I do hope you got Merkel and Obama's permission first, or did you cut out the middle man and just asked Putin:p

Not if you believe the ex-army officer on the radio this morning. They got rid of them because they were useless, the "armour" won't stop a Kalashnikov bullet, let alone heavy machine gun fire or shell splinters.

The Ukrainians are getting screwed from all sides.....

This whole sorry saga has the insidious malodour of appeasement. We haven't seen the paper waving and 'peace in out time' sound bites but that doesn't mean we aren't adopting the same flawed policy that set the conditions for WW2....

Not saying this is the start of WW3 by any stretch, but I am genuinely quite worried about the state of the world right now and the perilous state of not just our armed forces but those of most of our allies!

The significant difference between now and 1938 is that Chamberlain used appeasement to successfully delay the onset of war and provide much needed time to rearm and prepare his nation for war. I wonder what the outcome of the next SDSR will be...?

A10s moving back to Europe.....
Air Force sending 'tankbuster' jets back to Europe - CNN.com
mmitch.

Speaking from experience, those Saxons are utter death traps. Poor visibility, an engine mounted on one side so giving a tendency to drift over under braking, and no real armour capability, if this is a signal of our intent, and considering the implications of this conflict, I too am genuinely worried.:(

That'll be the A-10 that everyman and his dog have tried to withdraw from service in the US as no longer relevant in the modern world.....

Just goes to prove they cannot do with out them, no matter what some of the politicians and higher military echelons think.

Yea they are a private sale predating the current conflict. As for stopping fire, some news reports are saying that Ivan have bought in some of the latest to try out and the Ukrainian tanks armour can't hold up.

Its called being spit roasted.

As I've stated before, we are heading into a dark path

Despite peace talks, Ukraine teeters on the brink of a bigger war

As expected all the major players are moving into position.

Regardless of what people think of the F-35 and the politics of it, the A10 is available now and a few of the European natives are getting skittish.

Uncle Tom Dannatt?
 

General Sir Richard Dannatt condemns armoured vehicle transfer to Ukraine - Telegraph


Conservatives have had his pants down here IMHO. He repeatedly spoke out against a Labour Govt. over their mishandling of the Iraq War, and Afghan debacle. But as soon as he was demobbed,jumped into the sack with Cameron et al to help get them elected. Now expresses surprise at the news that the present Govt. has effectively turned a blind eye to an inferior weapon supply.
At least he is speaking out against it, I will give him that. But he was used.
Cameron, as UK PM is absolutely desperate for this crisis to go away, because he knows he should be helping to lead with the European response against it. But he cant do anything, because (a) we are small and now surprisingly undefended-we no longer have credible defence forces and (b) the Government know the public do not want to antagonise Russia, or be any part of the potential fight on behalf of the Ukraine, because they now recognise point (a) themselves, and only want to be left in peace. My 2 bob opinion spent.

"he knows he should be helping to lead with the European response against it"

Why?

it's actually quite nice to see some other Europeans leading the charge this time with us holding their coats rather than the usual charge from Downing Street

Didn't Ukraine hand back to Russia its original nuclear weapons on the promise that Putin wouldn't be naughty and try to invade them?

I suspect that they are now regretting it.

On the understanding the UK and US would defend them against any hostile threat.

Leading the charge, what f%$^ing charge. Charge of the donkey brigade. Seems like a typical European response that is leading to the point where we will end up taking the lead at a terrible cost.

GNo wonder Putin was smiling when walking out of the ceasefire meetings, he was thinking, "this must be what the Adolf felt like after dealing with Chamberlain".

I wonder if they were brought to the table because of the shelling and it was one reason they were pushing for the artillery to be pulled back.

I wonder what they hit at Donetsk, ignore the silly title

https://youtube.com/watch?v=khiEWTs7nwM

The slide to a real war involving UK now more possible than ever .
 

Ken Clarke: Sending troops to Ukraine will not 'solve anything' - Telegraph


PPrune amazes me with its apathy at times.... its as though everybody has gone to sleep... or are simply too world-weary to care. I can understand that but please somebody speak up.
Ok. I'll drag it up again.
The above link is a story about the UK now sending military advisors and trainers to help one side of the Ukrainian...you know what its about.
Ex minister called K Clarke thinks this will not really solve anything.


Our ministers are out of their depths.
We have not the military capability to front up to Russia, right on their own border. We will never have that capability.
This will make us take a side. We could now be seen to be directly supporting the fighting against the Western Ukraine separatists/the Russians (by proxy).
This is not our war to fight.
The PM is beyond his mandate to take these risks. The democratic process must take place in such a serious situation. Have I missed the debate in Parliament? Was there a vote?
This can quickly and readily escalate very badly for everybody.
We are sleepwalking into a conflict of which we should avoid.
Dialogue has to be maintained by and with all sides.


What am I missing? Are they mad, or am I mad?

Hangar, one can argue that the UK already took a side (as did the US) a couple of decades ago by underwriting the deal wherein Ukraine gave up the nukes as part of the split from Russia/CIS/USSR.

Hangar - a small history exam..

Who said: .

What was the result?

Remind me again who has been targetting civilians in this ?

As for the agreement, US Govt has said previously it didn't apply when they disliked parts of it.................... funny that been saying that since 1860's in the US.

racedo:
Your "who has been targeting civilians" questions seems a non sequitur regarding who did or didn't sign up to guarantee a deal.

Likewise, just what are you referring to from the 1860's? Was the US involved with the Ukraine in the 1860's? I don't recall that, to be honest. I am not sure what the point of the allusion is.

US Govt happy breaking treaties with its own people from 1860's onwards.

Explainer: The Budapest Memorandum And Its Relevance To Crimea

As for Budapest Treaty......... its not, its a political document and that view is from the US.

Victoria Nuland spending $5 Billion on Ukraine...................... what was that about again ?