Ascent UK MFTS
 

Hi folks,
Looking to find informations regarding jobs at Ascent Flight Training.

Anybody could share somme informations regarding what to expect on a contract (mean gross salary, benefits and allowances or eventual bonuses?)

Would they hire non-british people?

Trans a lot for any information.

Cheers,
Laurent

Laurent

Mate - probably best to speak to them directly. There is a link here for current vacancies.

Current Vacancies | Ascent Flight Training

Good luck

And that sums up all that is wrong with PFI-ing your military flying raining system! :ugh:

Agree with you there 100%, RP!

I wouldn't even be tempted to buy snake oil from the person from Ascent who recently gave us a brief on how well MFTS was going....:ugh:

How long before people wake up to the fact that PFI military training is an unsustainable, complete and utter crock, which (with any luck) is doomed to failure.

I see that one 'essential' requirement for the BJFT SME they're trying to recruit is that the candidate must be:

A 'regular' 500 mile round trip by road or 5 hours each way on a train chugging its way from Shabby Wood through at least two dozen stations in Wales, eh? That sounds like a pretty appealing 'essential requirement'....:rolleyes:

Essential skills for FJ SME from the advert

Guess that's me out then, unless an iPhone counts as an oral and written communicator.

BEags,

As ever, I think you're spot on. In the mean time, Laurent, it's all we have at the moment, so go ahead and give it a go. As long as you like the travelling. I can't see that the MoD has a way of resurecting the Phoenix anytime soon so I think your job would be safe for a while.

Laurent,

In direct answer to your original query, I would recommend emailing the questions you have to [email protected]

All the best

Given your location and evident interest, furrydude, are you perchance one of the people running the utter crock known as MFTS?

If so, no doubt you will be able to cast light on the current rumour doing the rounds that 4 Sqn (under Ascent) have temporarily had to stop training students? Who are now being sent to 208 Sqn for traditional RAF training instead? The rumour being that Ascent will have to sort things out for themselves as everyone else wishes to see the return of a proper RAF training system - and the end of this flawed PFI nonsense.

Good luck in finding anyone happy to commute regularly between Valley and Filton.....:rolleyes:

First, i'm very new here so please go easy on me.

I agree with the previous poster, the rumours reaching us from the courses that have made it to Valley suggest that it will be a rough ride to the OCU; poor morale, stop-start flying and insufficient qualified instructors.

wannabeTyphoon, sorry to hear that things are so bad.

Rumours that there aren't enough trained QFIs for Ascent's training task and that student training has had to be restricted (if not binned altogether, except for a few on 208), whilst frantic attempts are made to train further QFIs, would appear to be true.....:ugh:

But is there really now a 9 month delay in student output targets as a result of Ascent's fai...'issues'?

Are the wheels already coming off this half-baked piece of short-termist nonsense?

I hope that you will get to that Typhoon seat one of these days, wannabeTyphoon and that it will be worth the wait. I sincerely hope that it will be. But perhaps their airships need to think less exclusively about the futile North-West Frontier campaign and more about long-term sustainability?

BEags

A nice thought, but, the majority of 'airships' at the top these days are wokka types with only a recent operational background in the North West Frontier!

The fall from grace of the Fast Jet jockey since we went back to the sandpit after '91 has been damaging top-end capability ever since we let a kipper mate in to run 11Gp.

In recent years, FJs have not been 'sexy' in the eyes of military.

IMHO, of course...:E

The B Word

Wow, not really great news then....

I still haven't understood the way the training has been set up but, being non-British, I expected some kind of a well developed system with a precise and careful study behind from RAF.
If the contract was awarded for 25 years I thought there had been tons of reasons, from development of a new training system to the sustainment of it.

I guess there's no recommandation to look for further evidence of investigating about reliability and opportunites, for what I read in the forum.

Cheers,
Laurent

Even if I'll try to contact then to understand what is their position and SA about the Ascent adventure.

If anybody has further evidence or information, please feel free to add, e speciali if coming from inside!

If there's a shortage of FJ QFIs, why does the poster make it sound like I was asking to date his sister when I volunteered to go back to instructing at Valley....? :E

Curious as to the wages (at Ascent), of which there appears to be no mention - bearing in mind a PA Flt Lt in his, or her, mid 40s with the requisite experience would be on circa £65 - £70K if still in the raf, and perhaps approaching a £20K pension after leaving.

On reading these criticisms of alleged delay and disorganisation in the flying training system I'm intrigued as to what it's being compared to. Before starting BFTS in the eighties it was three months before I even had a course date -which was a further four months away. It then came forward by five weeks. In both cases without a word of explanation, not that I that I'd have asked for one, happily holding on full pay! I don't recall anyone asking us about our morale either.

What HAS changed is that if anyone were to have indulged in public criticism of the system back then, their career would have ground to a halt at that instant!

Yes, the Zersetzung attitude towards thoughtcrime in the RAF back then would probably have embarrassed even the Stasi....:rolleyes:

Don't want criticism? Then don't cause it! Simple!!

I went down to Ascent just over 3 years ago for interview. All very polite in the first session, 2 SME guys both ex mil who checked out my background and knowledge.

Second interview,senior manager and HR lady. Asked to give a presentation with 30 mins to prepare, all straightforward again. Q & A with them, all good

- asked by HR my current and salary expecation...cue her jaw dropping

That kinda finished that..they wanted my experience and qualifcations on the cheap. Needless to say I now work with another company who pay me my proper commercial value...enough said. Hope that helps

Perhaps they were making the same mistake which others seeking employment of ex-military experts often make as well? Namely that you'll be happy with their salary topping up your military pension to equal your previous salary....:rolleyes:

But people with specialist skills are wise to that these days!

"No bucks = no Buck Rogers!"

"Don't want criticism, don't cause it.." In principle I agree with that sentiment. The point is such delays would have been deemed unremarkable over much of the last few decades and anyone who'd spoken out as you have here would have been strung up.

Except that, in this situation, the frustration / delay hasn't been due to any 'fault' of the RAF......:rolleyes:

Just the plank who thought that MFTS was A Great Idea.

How many other air forces farm out their core military training to civilian companies?

One of the "planks" involved was a RN 2.5!!! Pre-emptive strike for the Harriers controversy?

Well NFTC for one is a very similar setup and one which the RAF has been a successful member of.

MFTS in principle is not a bad thing as a concept...the execution is perhaps demonstrably a little off at the moment but there are probably some hefty mitigating factors?!

The setup in terms of infrastructure (ac/real-estate/IT support/sims) should mean that this system is world beating. Just not quite there yet sadly.

Dirty Sanchez
 

I'm biting my tongue as hard as I can and will not be drawn into a public debate on the rights and wrongs of MFTS. As someone who is intimately familiar with both MFTS (IV Sqn) and NFTC I can tell you that you are much further from the mark than you think on several counts.
BV:=

So, BV, that would indicate that you disagree with the statement: Even though you are 'intimately familiar' with IV Sqn?

Hopefully no self-seeking airship will direct manning to sort out the chaos at Valley - and the whole failed MFTS experiment will be consigned to the rubbish bin of history.

The Hawk T2 and the syllabus might be one thing, but the bolleaux of MFTS quite something else....

BV,

I regret any incorrect assumptions about the similarity of MFTS and NFTC, again I don't wish to be critical of either system but merely offered my tuppence of thoughts. With your insight what makes them so different?

I am afraid I cannot support the notion that MFTS should be banished to the bin. It is, whether rightly or wrongly the system that is now in place and it is incumbent on all involved to see it through is it not?

I am surprised there is an apparent shortage of QFIs; now is this because the system (and I am looking specifically at IV Sqn) can't train them, or that the FJ desk are not posting people to Valley?

Well that, I suspect, is where there is going to be a divergence of opinion. Unfortunately it is time that civilian contractors, who fail to meet their part of the contract, we're dealt with severely; even if that means bankrupting them. Defence cannot remain a cash cow for under performing contractors. Only then might the penny drop with our political masters that you cannot do Defence on the cheap.

IMHO, MFTS is a set too far, is incompatible with any number of government policies and risks destroying what was once, arguably, the best military training system there was. If it fails now we still have the knowledge and skills "in house" to recover the situation. If we leave it another 5 years............

DS
 

I think I can answer that without putting my foot in it!

At NFTC, the contractor provides the jets, sim and infrastructure and nothing more.
Under MFTS the contractor is supposed to provide everything except the pink bodies to fill the QFI shaped flying suits.

BEagle, you're just being mischievious.
BV

Cheers BV,

Forgive me for being dim, but I still don't see what huge differences exist between the 2. Not that it matters... NFTC is working and according to many here MFTS isn't.

Apart from jets, sim and infrastructure, what are MFTS expected to provide that NFTC aren't? Doesn't "infrastructure" cover syllabus, IT etc etc. Both systems rely on a supply of instructors by their respective Air Force(s). Are Ascent been given the QFIs they were guaranteed to make the programme viable?

Roland,

Is this a matter of perspective? Do civilian contractors who work for Ascent really (and deliberately) not provide what it is they are supposed to? Is it down to a badly written contract, lacking the finer details which only come to light once the system is "running"? These issues then lead to a bunfight over who does them and at whose expense...

Clearly what is not in question is the frustration but is one side firmly to blame?

Ascent UK MFTS
 

DS.
I didn't choose my words very well perhaps. By infrastructure I just meant stuff. At NFTC the military developed, wrote and standardize the syllabus. MFTS are supposed to do that themselves and the military guys just teach it.
BV

DS, you are probably correct with that. It is all the little extras that we as military personnel just do, because of years of experience, because it s what is expected of us and because when tasked with doing it by the Boss we get on and do it. The little things that would be impossible to capture in a contract but wich are the glue that holds the whole system together. Things like if the PowerPoint presentation provided by the provider (be that RAF or contractor) is wrong, you just get on and change it. But with contractor provided PowerPoint that is a contract change, requires negotiation and time, effort and (significant) amounts of money.

And that is where the logic of contractorization fails. The company need to make a profit (unlike the military). Your short term contracted service may be cheaper on paper, initially, but it will not remain so. Their costs will increase, there will be things we want to do that were never captured in the contract, we will need to make changes against the 10 or 15 year old plan, they will not be able to deliver the quality we require over time = more expensive, less effective, more frustrating than doing it all in house.

A couple of points here.......

Sorry mate - but the MFTS programme was going a long, long way before a wokka mate woke up and found himself wearing the daddy pants. Ergo - your statement [in this context] is hoop.

Secondly, the RW element was still in full swing as I left; Ascent were advertising for some very, very highly qualified and uniquely experienced individuals. Unfortunately, HR seemed to have mixed the offered salary with jobseekers allowance. I guessed those interested were expected to fund their employment from their service pension.

Pay peanuts - get monkeys.... et voila!

Daily Post says it's great: RAF Valley: Hawk T2 aircraft mean fast jet training for pilots is faster than ever - Daily Post

minigun

I had a little chuckle to myself with that as well. In my 30 odd years in Her Majesty's Flying Club there have only been 2 non-FJ Chiefs, Sir Peter H and the current CAS. And of course the 'kipper mate' referred to, ran the amalgamated 11/18 Gp rather than just 11 Gp - sadly probably a reflection of the decline in power of HMFC!! :sad:

And of course the Ascent Training Director is a notable rotary mate too ........

Hi guys,
this is my first post...I am an Italian Air Force Pilot Instructor, my family is from Uk and lives in Edinburgh. I have been in Ascent offices for an interview for the position as Subject Matter Expert. They are still in touch with me but before I leave the AF and start commuting from Bristol rather than Italy I was wondering if anyone can give me some info about the company
Thanks a lot for your help.

Well, from what I hear, it's not going too well right now, is it BV?

Generally, or in light of Friday's events?

Ascent UK MFTS
 

Enough of the cryptic clues. What have you heard?!
BV

Another QRF grounding