Let's not forget Lee Rigby in all this; an innocent young man, slaughtered by a couple of idiots.

You are quite right, hoodie, thanks for pointing out my error; I hadn't seen all the videos when I made my post. As I said in that post, I had only seen one very short clip. However, now I have seen several more clips and I realise that they did clearly claim to be committing their crime on behalf of Allah and Islam.

How sad.

El G, maybe if you could make your point more clearly I would understand what you're getting at.

Cuefaye ??

Rgds SOS

An odd story in BFBS News ...

BFBS News

Always two sides to a story ... but let's hope someone in "management" applies a bit of common sense.

In another piece about this very sad incident ... absolutely the right thing to do ...

BFBS News Memorial Honour

Wasted to much time with the Rightie Haties on the US thread and others to be bothered with that type of crap response.

You know exactly what my point is. Stop trying to labour it :ugh:

Well, I don't really think that this religious murder tooke place in isolation. It is part of a worldwide pattern which is widely reported. I fear that Europe is at the beginning of Islamification.
The cowards of the Right have, for too long, permitted the Left to shout them down, to call them racists, bigots, idiots; 'fatuous' was the last one I collected.
We have permitted this to happen and we really need to take action to stop it right now.

good sabre-rattling stuff Basil but what are you actually going to do?

Go out and kick the sh*t out of random foreigners?

Petrol-bomb your nearest mosque?

Write an angry letter to the Times?

Until you have a real answer to inter religious conflict and a way to prevent radicalisation of ANY religious group or individual (not just muslims), why don't you keep your bigoted, and idiotic thoughts to yourself?

Your surname isn't Moseley is it?

This forum really needs a 'like' button.

[email protected],
[email protected], do not put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the kind.

You have, in your post, libelled me as a (libellous term deleted). I am not. I offer you the opportunity to edit or delete your libel. If you fail to do so then you will face the consequences of your libel.

Basil All your own words - giving me the impression that you are a racist and a xenophobe.

BUT you are right - I can't say that you are a racist - I withdraw that statement - but I can think whatever I like and you know what I think......

The threat of libel is just the sort of bully-boy tactics favoured by the right-wing and does nothing to enhance any of your arguments.

[email protected],
I stand by every word I have said.

If you wish to misinterpret and misrepresent them then fill yer boots however, I will not be libelled.
You are welcome to your thoughts.

[email protected]

three easy and relevant UK questions:

1. is there a Black Police Officers' Association?

2. is there a Muslim Police Officers' Association?

3. Is there allowed to be a Native White British Police Officers' Association?

If you have the answers correct, then

QED.

And if you were in a minority group, especially within an organisation that has (rightly or wrongly) been called institutionally racist, wouldn't you want your own association to prevent you being disadvantaged?

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think positive discrimination is a good thing - it is a sop to let politicians claim they are above board and even handed when it comes to employment - best person for the job (ie a meritocracy) is the better option.

However, when race, class or religious bias is used by the majority to prevent the rise of suitably qualified and able minorities then such associations and some element of positive discrimination are necessary.

I am not a pinko-fag-commie-subversive (to quote Kenny Everett) but using such a very sad and vicious crime as this to tar all muslims (or any minority) with is just plain wrong - and nationalistic rantings are just that - rantings with no purpose other than to incite bigotry and overreaction amongst others.

So you got the answers right.

When in a hole, stop digging.

I rest my case.

Here's the thing now crab.

Whenever I see a garb-clad muslim now, I am instantly reminded of the atrocities carried out in their name. Instantly!!

I am offended by what they have come to represent and offended by they that represent them.

Who is to blame for that I ask !!

Living where I do, I deal with Muslims in shops and they are mostly agreeable, treating me as I do them. Two of our sons came close to having Muslim fathers-in-law; good guys with whom we partied a bit and I'm sorry we've lost touch.

I posted the following recently on another thread:
I have spent 90% of my working life travelling around the world.
In most parts I have been treated with generosity and courtesy. We, here, and I, do tend to go on about Islamic extremists in the West and in their own countries. In Islamic countries I have been treated with generosity and courtesy.
I recollect walking around Muree (Sp?) in N Pakistan and a couple of the girls required a visit to the loo. Why they couldn't just go off into the woods escapes me but, Western women, - tsk! They approached a house and asked to use the loo and were admitted. I have wondered ever since how a bunch of wandering Pakis* would be received in my country.
I recollect getting into a Middle Eastern taxi one day when I was a little pissed off with something at work. The taxi driver took a look at my face and advised me not to take things too seriously - HTF did he know? Good man.
I screwed up a check ride slightly (not a fail but a couple of points) with an Asian first officer and my first question to the check captain was whether the FO's failure to intervene would affect his future career.
I have sat having a beer or three with an Iraqi and Iranian, both ex mil, who'd fought against each other other in the Iraq-Iran war. The hilarious bit was what the fighter pilot would have done to the Herc pilot if they'd met back then.
So - I don't think I'm a racist nut but I accept that tribalism is hard-wired into humans and those who deny that are just silly.

*In Bahrain the ruling family employed men from Baluchistan as police. I think they're a bit secular (unlike most in the region) and we generally referred to them as 'Baluchis'. No-one objected so why the huge 'disrespect' thing about referring to Pakistanis as 'Pakis'?

Good advice to those who would defend their right to free speech against those who would subvert it in the following from 'If' by Kipling:

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,

If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

Dunky said Me too.

Rgds SOS

The 'i' ending is very common in the middle east:

Somali, Yemeni, Kuwaiti, Iraqi, Afghani, Bangladeshi, etc etc. In most of these cited the whole country name is used. In the case of the Stans however, Baluchistan, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, the Stan is dropped to give the name hence Kazak and Kyrgyz don't take the I form. Where there is an I then the name may or may not take the I form hence Afghan and Afghani are both correct.

In the case cited above, Pak does not sound right whereas Paki is etymologically logical. That it has become a mark of disrespect is for an entirely different reason.

PS:
To add a corollary :)

Countries in the near east go the other way and tend to add an ~n ~an or ~ian to the country name - Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Italy, Albania, Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Syria, Jordan, India and thence down into Africa.

An obvious connection is that they were named by Europeans and, by convention, retained these names. The following link explains many name changes Geographical renaming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and it is worth remembering that Pakistan only came in to being in 1947 and I found this fascinating story of how it was so named:

Prior to 1947, the country now known as Pakistan was a British colony. In 1947 the United Kingdom granted independence to the region under a new name, Pakistan. The name had been developed by a group of students at Cambridge University who issued a pamphlet in 1933 called Now or Never. They came up with the term "Pakistan" as "composed of letters taken from the names of our homelands: that is, Punjab, Afghania [North-West Frontier Province], Kashmir, Iran , Sindh, Tukharistan, Afghanistan, and Balochistan. It means the land of the Paks, the spiritually pure and clean."

Although the suffix "stan" means country in Hindi and Persian, the students were able to fit the names of homelands to make an appropriate country name.


How Pakistan Got Its Name - Geography

PN, Thanks for info. Now better informed (I'm sure someone will fill in the corollary ;))
Thanks again PN, astonished I didn't know that.
What I meant by 'corollary ' was the addition of 'non the wiser' to 'better informed' :)

Maybe for the same reason you objected to Crab's statement which you thought offensive/libelous. That is, in civil society we consider the recipient's view of "harm done" rather than the author's intent. This has been a long standing principle in British law for some time. So while you may not think the term is offensive we rightly consider the recipients view to have precedence over yours. And that's just the way it is - rightly so as civil people.:ok:

I just realized that I called you something a few posts back (questioned your intellect) that perhaps I ought not to - I'm going to go back and retract it. I had no intention to be libelous. Sorry mate.


There done it - grateful if you could remove it from your quote now - Cheers mate.;)

I do take your poit about "harm done", Tom, but I think it's also fair to say that there are occassions when recipients claim to be offended (if being a bit offended counts as "harm done") because it suits their agenda. I don't think the law is quite that black and white (sorry, at either end of the monochrome continuum). I think that cases have been dismissed by judges where the accused has been able to demonstrate that thier action/words were not intended to cause offence.

The world is disappearing up its own PC rectum, I would rather the police and damn courts spent more time processing and deporting the likes of the radical clerics and illegal immigrants than wasting its time on some inane dross posted on twitter that was un PC by people that frankly are as much harm as a chocolate hand grenade.


Oddly I put t w I t t e r and it replaces it with pprune