You're lucky pr00ne, a rich bourgeois capitalist like you wouldn't normally get away with flaunting his/her affluence like that. Then again you're probably regarded as being on side given your left leaning credentials.

FB

What's your point ? He' British,proud to be British & just happens to be a muslim & originally from another land.
I served in the military & will have no truck with anyone who commits or would attempt to commit such vile actions as those in Woolwich.I would have been happy as larry if the police had arrived 15 minutes earlier & shot them dead before they killed this lad.
To conflate these sub-human gimps actions with the majority of Muslims &/or immigrants is just illogical.To demonise people in this way is not only wrong, it's dangerous.
Simplistically put, someone punched you in the face for no reason, they're bastards,if they happen to be black,white,asian,catholic or zoroastrian,they are still just a bastard.

If there is any comfort to be taken away from this barbaric episode, just consider that in 2001, terrorists hijacked four airliners and killed nearly 3,000 people in less than an hour. In 2013 they knocked down an off-duty soldier with a car and set about him with kitchen knives. It's hardly the act of a movement in rude health.

RIP Drummer Rigby.

Nice one.
 

Well said Coff. Totally in agreement.
The highest crime rate that I have ever experienced in my life was in the supposed 'civilised' Oxford. Absolutely appalling.

My then wife (A foreigner) really had her illusions of Blighty dented. In one year, burgled twice, car stolen, her phone snatched at a bus stop. And so on.

Talk to people down the pub and all you get is a shrug of the shoulders, seems to be standard practice there.

I once lived in Dalston in the mid 80's, it had a bit of a bad rep then. I found it to be a real community and felt perfectly safe. The old timers were kept an eye on and the wannabees were told to wind their necks in. Worked out fine and a real racial mixing pot.

The 60's and streets safe to walk in? What bollocks. A romantic view of the Krays being gents who loved their Mum? They were feral - if they'd been in a litter of puppies it would have been a .410 in the back yard.

Jimmy Boyle anyone? Speciality, nailing people to floors using bayonets.

Some of the folks out there must be wearing double rose tinted.........

When trying to integrate Muslim immigrants, Western countries find themselves pitted against the ghost of Mohammed. Mohammed’s supreme idea was that Islam demanded complete submission, transcending all tribal and political bonds. Our supreme idea is that political representation allows law to coexist with human freedom.
Western nations expect Muslim immigrants to live by a code that separates civil and religious laws. The Western system assumes that Muslims will accept a division between the political and the religious, relegating religion to the mosque, while otherwise being Englishmen, Frenchmen and Americans. This concept however is innately foreign to the Muslim mind.
The two supreme ideas of Islam and the West are naturally incompatible. Muslims view all political laws as corrupt and Allah’s law alone as transcendent. The West preserves political and civil rights by separating civil and religious laws into separate spheres. That is not a compromise that Muslims can truly understand or respect. For all intents and purposes, both sides are speaking different political languages that represent two radically different viewpoints.
Each time we insist that there is no contradiction between being a Muslim and being a Frenchmen, a Brit or an America-- we make it that much worse. For Islam insists that there is a contradiction, even as we insist that there is none. Having given up our claim, the Western Muslim naturally moves to appease the cleric by resolving any contradictions between Islam and Western society; in Islam’s favor. And thus the moderate Muslim becomes a Jihadist enabler, if not a Jihadist himself.
Given enough centuries of residence, the problem might resolve itself. If Islam did not insist on conquering infidels by the sword, but merely on separatism, the problem would be mainly a social one. If Muslims were not swiftly moving from minorities to majorities across Europe, there might still be time. Unfortunately there is very little time left before Europe becomes Eurabia, and much of the rest of the world will follow. The toxic combination of Saudi wealth, a booming birth rate, a decaying West and the industrialized secularism of the First World colliding with the fanatical determinism of the Muslim world, leaves only two ways for this clash of civilizations to end.
One idea, one way of life must win. The other must lose. The great question being decided now in our words and deeds is which will stand and which will fall.

Bob C

True.
 

Yes, Bob C - very valid argument. But surely the same as the Jesuits or the Children's Crusade. Or even the Nazis indoctrinating young folks?.

Personally, I'm in agreement with the French : Religion, keep it behind your own door. At least they are trying.

Never forget being in Belfast when a young lad and a super cute little girl (About 5) and her sister walked up hand in hand. I said "Hello".

The stream of abuse that emerged from her mouth had the Paras I was with speechless with laughter (But no-one ever accused the Paras of being tactful). Such hatred from a tiny little kid and now that she is probably a Grandmother herself now, has that indoctrination ever gone away?.

I wonder.

At last count 8 British Muslim members of Parliament,the majority of whom recently voted 'for' gay marriage - a VERY 'muslim' idea ?

Link to the British Armed Forces Muslim Association;

http://www.afma.org.uk/

Strangely not a word of Sharia,Greater Caliphates from any of the above.

The people who killed Drummer Lee Rigby were scumbags not Muslims,influenced by other evil scumbags.

woolwich
 

As a matter of interest the 'Mirror' has a video with CCTV footage showing the arrival of the armed police. Eight shots fired after the two killers apparently rushed the police car with more murder in mind.

Saw the shootings on the late ITV news last night,without thinking uttered the plural C word in front of Mrs woptb,she (VERY unusually) just nodded.

They are most definitely both. Converts are often extremely zealous. Scumbags survive in all quarters.

Just watching a guy on Sky News this morning, I did not realise the Army had a 'Muslim Association'. When all the talk is integration of society I often wonder if organisations like this and for example 'The Black Police Association' are not making things worse. I do not have a hint racist leanings in myself at at all and would be agast if there was a White Police Association however do we sometimes go to far when pandering to minority groups.

"I am a huge supporter of the creation of the Armed Forces Muslim Association. It reflects the growing numbers, importance and relevance of the Muslim soldiers, sailors and airmen serving the United Kingdom with such distinction today and, I have no doubt, in the future.

It is right that these outstanding people have an organisation around which their views and aspirations can coalesce. It will also serve as a focal point for those that seek to better understand Muslims in the Armed Forces and how they might best assist them to achieve their aspirations to the common good."

General Sir David Richards.

My daughter and son-in-law both serving police officers. White as it happens. English ancestry to 16xx proven. They say there is permanent outrage among their white colleagues that a White Police Officers [or Native English] is not permitted.

That is on a par with no English Parliament of course.

Can't say a word on such subjects without a verbal stoning, though.

I shall be surprised if I am not admonished!

Rest in Peace

[Enoch Powell was right, please don't forget it!]

A truly awful attack - thoughts with the family and friends.

In response to the attack, to show those who would do such things that we will never be subdued by fear - would it be appropriate (if permission was granted by HM) for serving, and retired members of the armed forces to wear uniform for a day in London/around the UK (be it to their active places of duty, or indeed their civilian places of work) - to show we will not be pushed into submitting to evil attacks such as this? And that there is a whole 'military' out there of people against them (serving, retired and the public!)?:ok:

Just a thought.

Again sympathy to the family. RIP

Someone who has articulated his feelings better than I;

Just out for a walk after an early stack
Not looking for trouble not watching my back
Mothers with prams holding hands with their kids
Not paying attention to the car as it skids
Caught completely off guard not expecting what comes
One man with a knife another with guns.
No chance of defence no chance to fight back
Looking for help as the cowards attack
An angel arrives as the light turns to grey
A woman attempts to steer attackers away
My last thought of ‘Thank You’ never strays from my brain
As my body shuts down and I feel no more pain.

I look to my left and I look to my right
Thousands of squaddies are all that’s in sight
Uniforms are crisp and their faces are clean
No sign of anger or hate to be seen
As if by command they salute all as one
The RSM smiles, says ‘Welcome home son’.

“Pit race against race, religion against religion, prejudice against prejudice. Divide and conquer! We must not let that happen here.”
― Eleanor Roosevelt

Brill idea. If everyone who has served at some point in time were to wear uniform, awards, badges, whatever and in doing so indicate there support for the bereaved and Drummer Rigby on, say, Tuesday the 28th, then those who commit these foul acts might get to understand what they are up against.

Whilst it might be of limited value, everyone that I know on FB (well almost everyone) who has at any time worn a military uniform (even if it was as a cadet or a member of the UAS) has changed their profile to a picture of themself in uniform. Just as a bit of solidarity.


Duncs:ok:

The (unarmed) police were on the scene in around 8 minutes - which is pretty good in London given the traffic

I presume that they took a look, decided that

a) the bastards were going to stay put,

b) they weren't threatening any of the public

c) they wanted to kill more soldiers/coppers

d) they were waiting for martyrdom

so sit back, observe and wait for the guys with guns - quite reasonable