Airbus A400M as a maritime aircraft ?
 

Is it a realistic option to convert the Airbus A400M to maritime use?

The Boeing P8 appears to be too small ?

http://dms.progressivemediagroup.com...arge/a400m.jpg


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...MxpSRXsewx7Few

Anything is possible these days ... But with all that MPA kit to lug around ... plus flight rations ... you might look to convert these :}

http://sophiefigenwald.files.wordpre...uga-airbus.jpg

You know, if you filled the Beluga's fuselage with ferry tanks, it would have one hell of a range.

Who says the P-8 is too small?


Too small for what?

The P8 is too big..........for the MoD budget!

In the days when A400M was 'FLA', one of its intended roles was as the intended RMPA. However, the design requirements for a sturdy, austere base transport aeroplane with a freight floor and those of an MPA with a need for sensors and weapons carriage were, to an extent, mutually incompatible.

The A321 would, however, be a reasonable platform upon which to base an MPA.

Although whether it would be affordable is a different matter.

..even I have a ticket for 321's!
Roll on the civvy contract? I'm sure that's the only way the RAF will get them.
If they buy 20-yr-old frames I'm sure some Northern company could modify them in just a few short decades.

So basically we're having this conversation http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...sion-uk-4.html again but with a bigger airframe?

SAAB 2000?
 

I believe they as in the MOD had a look at using the above.

Cheap, fast, modest platform, just a shame they do not make them anymore but Eastern have a few.

I would be pleasantly surprised to see the A400 perform its prime role without further Airbus related cok ups and delays before thinking about maritime roles.

All the European Maritime patrol aircraft are getting long in the teeth.

With the A330 Tanker fiasco with the Americans, I don't forsee a lot of enthusiasm to buy the Boeing P8?

Obviously the Europeans would want a european solution. Enter the dedicated maritime A400M. The freight door would be removed and the aircraft would contain all the weapons, sonor bhoys, electonics etc needed.

Most of the cost would be the electronics, so it is important to have a longish production run to bring the cost of the aircraft down. As in the Boeing P8.

Since the maritime version would be the same as the original version, apart from the freight door. There is a chance this could be achieved with the A400 Maritime.

The alternative is for the whole of Europe to buy American.
That is unacceptable.

It's ok, the rations have been axed in the cutbacks!!

BW

I think the A400M would be way to big & expensive. A bombbay seems problematic. Much of the systems could be used, e.g engines.

A while back I sketched a euro concept that can transfer fuel to other MPAs and helicopters, as well as move 20 people/ cargo and carry optional gun turret (counter piracy). Single purpose platforms proved risky in dynamic times.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...ceptkeesje.jpg

Oh ffs, this is a wind up surely? A400m as an MPA lol.
We are not getting ANY MPA. Simples.

In another thread a european command was discussed with three main bases (northern UK, Portugal, Southern Italy) and a number of helicopter stations. A standarized long haul MPA type, a smaller coast ops optimized type and mixed european crews. Aircraft could be rotated between the bases as required.

What is really needed is an aircraft with a nice big bomb bay and four engines.

Something like this:-

http://htka.hu/wp-content/uploads/20...od_mra4_01.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/images/jp...2001939548.jpg

Big bomb bay - tick
Four engines - tick

How the Nimrod took so long to complete, is anybody's guess. I think I few heads needed knocking together. All that money spent for scrap metal.

A while back I flew a Boeing B737-800 from Mumbai to Bangkok.
Sardines in a tin. The engines and wing may be modern, but it is still a cramped 1950's fuselage. Not the greatest flight.

There will be problems with the Boeing P8 Poseidon.
Two engines, no bomb bay to drop things. Trying to do too much with a small airframe. Where have we heard that before ?

Maybe we should update the Nimrod ? Errr, sorry, cancelled.

Only two engines on the Atlantique ? Yes, but it has a bomb bay.

Lots of MPA aircraft in Europe getting old. Replacement needed, come on Eurozone, you have loads of money. You keep telling us that things are fine.

No, not the Airbus 321, it is an airliner, and it has two engines.

A400M expensive ? Depends on the production run. Most of the expense will be the electronics on board. Which need, an aircraft that is quite large for many reasons. The crew need a rest on a long flight.

The A400M has quite a good rough/short field performance, and a inflight refueling probe. It is quick for a turboprop.

Nearly getting there are we?

The bomb bay, might be a problem. Still, much can be done with a big aircraft. Lots of space inside means lots of flexibility. I am still thinking Of that flight to Bangkok, sitting by the window and asking the passengers to move so I can go to the toilet. It would, probably make quite a good business aircraft. Done already you say, OK fine. Boeing Business aircraft.

Back to square one. The Nimrod should never have been cancelled. It was just mismanaged. Well, we know how smart managers are?

Airbus A340-300. Ideal, send a few up to Marshalls at Cambridge, conversion time.

Back to square two.

1)Four engines for an MPA
2)A nice big bomb bay to drop things.
3)Lots of electronic power and cooling.
4)Somewhere for the crew to eat and sleep.
5)An aircraft not designed in the 1950's. Nimrod, yeah I know, but it looks nice.

In the end, the Europeans will keep their ancient crates going, and the British will buy the Boeing P8.
Won't they Liam ?

The good old P3 Orion.

A geat aircraft in its day, but old. Those maintenance costs upset the accountants.

Probably another option, better than the P8 though.

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/images/jp...2001939548.jpg

Stuffy. When it comes to P-8, I'm afraid you are wrong. It is not too small. Please don't compare to a passenger 737. It's a different beast.

I think Juliet has answered that one.

The P8 ....

It is too small.

It has two engines.

It does not, as far as I am aware. Have a bomb bay.

Lockheed make better aircraft than Ford(Boeing).

That is not a bomb bay. That is a delivery shoot.

Anyway, Made in USA. Will not go down well in Europe.

I thought the USAF ordered A33o tankers ?

Whoops, here comes Congress !

Pretty sure there is a bomb bay.

I know they are Made in Russia, have two engines, but I rather like these:-

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3567/5...6a3ff9ca_z.jpg

And the smaller version:-

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/ima.../13/261623.jpg

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck. It is a duck, or a Boeing 737.


An airliner.

The A400M is a beast. You can't lease them to Soutwest Airlines, well not yet anyway.

P-3 or Electra
 

We all know that you can't make a successful maritime aircraft based on an airliner...

http://www.century-of-flight.net/Avi.../images/16.jpg


http://media.defenceindustrydaily.co...onobuoy_lg.jpg

As long as they have four engines and they are called Nimrod.

Dream on, no flying battleships for the UK. Don't think 1985.

Even something like this is ambitious at this moment..

http://www.aviationnews.eu/blog/wp-c...le-600x400.jpg

Stuffy. Step away from the computer. You are making yourself look foolish. And even worse you know have keesje on the case and we will have to suffer his ASW, tanker, transport MPA pipe dream again :ugh:

The RAF could follow the Roland Pulfrew line; live in the past, preserve a Nimrod carcas, build models to dream away while the rest of the world moves on..

http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/S...ton-Bomber.jpg

One million rivets, vibrating in unison.

Bomb Bay ? This is a bomb bay:-

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../0/1227038.jpg

Airbus have already designed it...

"The A400M aircraft will meet the requirements of European Air Forces well into the 21st century while enhancing Europe's airlift capability. It will be able to takeoff from short (less than 1,000 meters) and rough runways and to operate autonomously loading and unloading payloads through its own resources independently of ground support. The aircraft has a rear loading ramp and T tail.

Airbus Military manages the A400M program. There are plans to developed advanced derivatives to fulfill specific missions profiles such as maritime patrol aircraft, early warning aircraft etc. The A400M will be converted to the air tanker role rapidly through the addition of under wing hose and drogue pods. The aircraft also features a forward fuselage mounted refueling probe."

What is needed, and the P8 does not appear to have, is a MAD boom. Or are they out of date ?
Magnetic anomaly detector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://images.auctionhelper.com/imag.../AnigrandIL38b

....someone's going to come along in a minute and tell you to make the picture smaller!

Unfortunately cancelled, but were design studies

http://www.bisbos.com/images_aircraf..._aew_g_600.jpg

http://www.bisbos.com/images_aircraf..._aew_f_600.jpg

http://www.bisbos.com/images_aircraf...nimrod_600.jpg

And lets not forget

http://www.bisbos.com/images_aircraf...offler_600.jpg

:ok:

The wonderful VC-10. Thirsty by today's standards.

Boeing have been pushing the UK government hard for the P8.

Liam Fox wanted it. I am not sure the service chiefs agreed?

A Europe wide solution will have to be found, eventually. A decision based purely on costs, will be the wrong one.

Beware the Beancounters !

Gents,

how far did the (i think) FOAS idea of a C-130/A-400M type aircraft lobbing a pallet load of ALCM's out the back get along?

i would have seen the illustration/concept around 1990 - was it ever anything of a go-er?

Finger trouble reporting that post Stuffy??? ;)

Yes, because completely ignoring financial reality has worked wonderfully so far...