Aggro,

Can you explain a little more about the £3500? Do you get a one off bill or is it shared out over your pay over the year. Thanks

Has any seen the actual details of this 'offer'?

Are you able to PVR within the five years seeing as there is no financial retainer?

So, as a friend of mine is 2 years from leaving, yet is being told 'sign up for PA or you won't get A330'. Oh and by the way, there is a 6 month OOA with your name on it.

Manning have stopped short term extensions so this is tantamount to blackmail.

5 year ROS from IPP. So for some offers of PAS this year it equates to over 7 years with no ability to PVR.

One hell of a commitment given the 2015+ changes.

:uhoh:

Ok, so next question!

If you sign up for PAS to get a posting that you would like, can you still leave at your original exit date? Or are you committed to 7 years once you sign up for PA....

No, you loose the IPP - you are committed.

It's not blackmail , it's just an option. You don't have to take it, you can just do 2 years and leave, or you can commit, get more money in the long run and get a good tour.

Supply and demand. The real world, whatever you want to call it, it isn't unreasonable.

Backwards.

Whilst 'blackmail' might be a touch strong, when you are promised a tour by the deskie, do all that is asked of you, told that you will get a 6-12 month extension to cover a ROS but then it's flipped on you in an instance and you're told 'sign on for 5 years or your tour is cancelled and welcome to Afghan', that's pretty close.

I know leaving is the option, but there is somewhat of a sour taste right now.

Bob9, our chap that got the unexpected £3500 bill was presented with a one off bill.

The one off bill comes in approx 18 months after payment of the FRI. It is caused by the fact that once you earn over £100000 in a tax year you start to lose your tax free allowance, and it tapers down to a zero tax free allowance for those earning over £120000. Therefore, with an £80000 or £100000 FRI You will be over the £120000 limit and will receive a tax bill the following tax year for 40% of £8000 (your tax free allowance), with a retrospective tax code to reflect that. It caught me by surprise, but thankfully I had not spent the whole amount by then.

...and the RAF never does anything "silly" does it...!!!

Its not unreasonable....

You must be from manning.

Accepting a seven year contract without knowing what the terms and conditions of your service will be seems pretty unreasonable to me, unless you work for Ryanair. Please don't tell me we have got that bad?

Egdg,

Retaining some experienced navs on PAS seems very sensible to me. There's still a requirement for them until the GR4 OSD, and beyond that their specific skill set doesn't just disappear. Look at the many ex-Tornado navs performing very well on Reaper.

Plus, some of the dreaded desk jobs will require any aircrew, not specifically pilots, so there are plenty of routes to employ them and use their experience for many years.

Probably a few WSO(N)s required at Waddo for a few years yet too, not that there are many weapon or navigation skills required up there.

I'm no Mystic Meg but I'd say '5 Forward Six Back' is/was a......NAV! ;-)

Mystic Meg's not got much to worry about from you Bobby, only ever 2 wings here! But we're all in it together, right? :ok:

3-Bladed Beast, Just This Once:
No it doesn't. JSP 754 allows for PVR within the 5-yr period:

"05.0623. RAF PAS OF2s who exit the Service prior to giving the requisite 5 years of service on the PAS will receive the standard SA representative pension based on rank without any supplements. RN and Army PAS/PES(A) OF2s who exit the Service prior to giving the requisite 5 years of service on the PAS/PES(A) will receive the standard CS representative rank based pension. PAS/PES(A) OF3s who exit the Service prior to giving the requisite 5 years of Service on the PAS/PES(A) will receive the standard CS representative rank based pension."

So, as I read it, you leave within 5 years and you revert to your original TOS, pension etc but, importantly, you can leave if everything goes to a crock of sh:(te post-2015.

When you sign for PAS, you sign in acceptance of the terms laid down in JSP754 so they'd do well to argue against it, though I'm no lawyer!

UG

I think you will find you have quoted the rules for how to treat someone who leaves PA, but without doing 5 years on PATOS; like I did in the past.

New PATOS are being offered (to every pilot beyond 3 years to IPP, so it would seem), but with a ROS requirement of 5 years from the start of your new TOS, which is a different arguement.

Agreed, Jambo. But I'm quoting the current JSP which is what we're agreeing (or not) to...my point is, the JSP gives the means to PVR so can manning overrule that?

The question was asked last year and, IIRC, the answer was I per the book that you can PVR, although we should probably get that in writing again!

Uncle,

I am very certain of my facts, as are Manning. The JSP remains extant and if you manage to leave before the 5 year point (say via admin discharge) then the rules prescribed still apply.

However, to be accepted on to PAS (RAF) you have to sign a ROS that effectively surrenders your 'PVR rights' as has been described in this thread. This is the relatively new bit that sits between the JSP and your acceptance (or otherwise) of PATOS.

Back in the day once an offer was given it could not be withdrawn and if you had the offer at 'first look' you had a period of years to make your final choice. You now have to accept or decline within a couple of months (although Manning have applied a little flexibility with this last bit for some special cases).

Hi Jambo, long time no hear.

The additional kicker is that on acceptance of the offer you loose the IPP (eg 38/16) instantly. One of my guys is now swapping emails with Manning to discuss what would happen if he PVR'd post his acceptance but before his 38/16 point and formally starting on PATOS (which in his case is 2.5 years away).