Thank you Willard; I see after your advice that there isn't much difference.

It just reminded me of a day in the office a few years back when a senior pilot asked, of no-one in particular, what 'dogging' was. I think he was looking at a BBC or newspaper website.

One of the engineers took to google on his work computer and found out. Much hilarity ensued when it was pointed out that the IT department - or whatever they were called, it doesn't matter - could access our internet records...

I had never heard of 'cottageing', I had an idea that dogging was something sexual but I am now enlightened on both fronts. What a strange world we inhabit...:).

I thought this was well presented on ebay and went for a low price considering most were originals

12 x Genuine RAF Pilots & Crew Cloth Wings Collection ~ Framed Display | eBay

The missing M
 

Nutloose, I met a Wing Commander Air Trafficer at Shawbury with an "M" brevet. He told me he had been a Met observer. A rare breed.

Once upon a time, the RAF also had Master Technicians. Does the RAF still have any "Master" ranks still serving, and what were/are/would be the equivalent for females - Mistress AEO, Miss Signaller?

From leaving school until N/S call-up I was a meteorological assistant. I then began a pilot course at No 1 ITS RAF Wittering from Jan '50. After a couple of weeks I received a letter offering me immediate promotion to Sgt Air Met Observer with an "M" brevet on my chest. Although it seemed impressive I declined and have never regretted my decision. The thought of "thums","prats" etc. (ask Langley B) would drive me mad.

And he was the very last.

I recall being at his retirement D-I-N and it was mentioned that when he went the Ms would be no more - late 70s early 80s IIRC??

Pontius Navigator (your #58)

"....I don't know how much benefit the Eng branch got from a relatively small number of aircrew trained officers...."

One of the versions (at the time) of the inadvertant flight by W/Cdr "Taffy" Holden in a Lightning at Lyneham had him as having done one of these Courses. Don't know if it's true.

(And if it were, it certainly wouldn't have qualified him to fly a Lightning !)

The marvellous thing about that episode was that they managed to hush it up so successfully that the papers didn't get on to it for years afterwards. A side effect was that all manner of tales were running around in the RAF after it happened (on a Saturday, I think).

It reached the Instructors' Common Room at JATCS (Shawbury) on the Monday morning. We rang Lyneham ATC, but could get nothing out of them. Somewhere way back in the last three years I Posted our (highly coloured)version on the "Gaining a RAF Pilot's Brevet in WWII" Thread under the title "Le Pilote Malgré Lui".

D.

PS: Traced it - "Lightning Engineer Airborne" Thread: Page 3 #42. This was the rumour as it reached us at Shawbury - almost entirely fictitious and much embroidered ! :8

This was the rumour as it reached us at Shawbury - almost entirely fictitious and much embroidered!

Danny - Despite the disclaimer above, I like your version so much - not least because of your vivid description of the alleged reaction on the ground! - that I hope you don't mind me highlighting http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...irborne-3.html:ok:

Jack

QUOTE

Once upon a time, the RAF also had Master Technicians. Does the RAF still have any "Master" ranks still serving, and what were/are/would be the equivalent for females - Mistress AEO, Miss Signaller?

Air Loadmatress of course.

An ex-Air Met Observer says that the M brevet doubled as Midwife ..........

Jack,

I would never take objection to any of your wise, witty and pertinent comments on my Posts !

But always bear in mind that, when the Guinness and the craic is flowing, the literal Truth sometimes takes a back seat !

Danny.

The flying "O".
 

I have been reading the various posts regarding airmen aircrew and the demise of the prized "O" brevet and replaced by the very mundane "N".
I joined as cadet airmen navigator in January 1949 for 8 years regular and 4 on the Reserve.
When our group got to No.1 ITS at RAF Wittering, among our instructors was a wonderful Master (equivalent to Warrent Officer) aircrew Navigator who wore the "O" brevet. We were told that the course we were on would also qualify us for the same illustrious brevet. Needless to say, Air Ministry put a stop to that, and all we got was the "N", even thought we had qualified as observers; i.e. navigators and bomb-aimers.
Another interesting raised by some was the decision to train us as airmen and not officers. On our course, 3 of us applied for Cranwell cadetships but I was unsuccessful. One of the 2 successful guys, Jock Cochrane, went on to become one of the Concorde test pilots.
Anyway, halfway through our course, Air Ministry had a change of heart, and we suddenly became officer cadets and finally completed our navigation/bomb aiming course training, and graduated as Pilot Officers with our "N" brevet.
Finally, would be fascinated if any readers went through their aircrew training at the same time as me.