Discussing Detroit Crime Statistics and SHould I own a Nerf Gun?
 

Who would have thought you could use an aeroplane for such a task?

Maybe we could deploy OUR maritime patrol fleet to help out? Oh! Hang on...

No, you're right. We could send some of our MR4s. Don't believe everything you read.

I see this as being the correct way to "hunt" Pirates from the air by fixed wing aircraft.


http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...vo-d387t6x.jpg

Ooooh, Errr...

That be spooky, that be...

A radial engined Herc with three bladed props? That would certainly surprise them to death!

So, the PM is getting together with France to discuss the Somali pirate problem. Well, at least we still have the Commonwealth to provide MPA to support that task. A good job HM visited the antipodes recently!

Duncs:ok:

But would you need an aircraft that carries 300 odd sonobuoys, can monitor 60+ at any one time, has a swept up ESM system, can handle 400+ contacts in its tactical system, etc to do this particular job......

Or would something like a maritime CN-235 suffice?

The aircraft is powered by two GE CT&-9C3 turboprop engines, each developing 1,305kW. - Image - Airforce Technology

The CN-235 is fine for ISR down the Somali Coast (assuming the owning Nation is happy for it to fly there), and also patrolling the Internationally Recognised Transit Corridor. However, seraching for motherships, dhows and the go-fasts that operate from them throughout the vastness of the Indian Ocean, you need a platform that can react quickly to get to a hotspot of pirate activity, can reliably detect small targets on radar, can take good photographic images that can be used as evidence in court later, and can stay there as long as possible to reduce the AOP for when the surface asset comes steaming over the horizon (which is often 24 hrs+).

The RN 2* that was running the EU Op (Atalanta) when I was there, was very vocal whenever anyone from the UK Govt came to visit about the fact that he would have loved to have the Nimrod available to him!

Auroras
 

Hopefully the Canuks will make available their Update 3 Auroras. I was shown around one at ZX last June, a very impressive machine. In fact, almost as good as an MRA4...........................oh b*gger, I've forgotten, where did we store them? :ugh:

Slightly off-topic question, but just how much could the Navy's training King Airs do in the way of maritime surveillance? They've got radars - presumably they can be used for "real" to some extent?

A pirate skiff with four Evinrudes could probably outrun a King Air.

Why, is it going to land on and arrest the naughty rascals? :hmm:

Quicker, easier and cheaper to sink them on the spot.

Court? Court? Why not Davy Jones's Locker and let Judge Neptune hold forth?

Apply Bible Teachings to them...."Live by the Sword....Die by the Sword!" I am sure the Quran has something similar somewhere in all its teachings of Peace and Love.

Surely a herc dropping UK estate agent leaflets would suffice? Might as well expedite the process of homing them here- It's going to happen anyway...

Yes, that always works. :ugh:Many more captives have been killed by their supposed 'protectors' than by the Somali pirates themselves. Moreover, trigger-happy forces have killed more captives than pirates. And please, no one quote that bogusly misleading video about the Russians knowing how to treat pirates appropriately. All their captives have either been released or handed over to the few countries willing to prosecute them.

Despite what any gung-ho keyboard warriors feel, this is not a shooting war. It is a constabulary operation mandated by international law and governed by national ROE, much akin to the police enforcing the law on the UK mainland. Similar rules apply to the gathering of evidence and the use of firearms.

The picky often call that murder. Can't imagine why.

CG

Well said. Piracy is a crime and they should be treated like criminals.

In many countries piracy is punishable by death. Thus this is known as justice...

Oh, and before we start bashing on about "moral high ground" and all that tosh I'll remind you, where terrorists, murderers, kiddie fiddlers, pirates and politicians are concerned, I have no morals. :E

This will not work for stopping the pirates. The pirates with the money and power, who have control of the operations, live in NBO, JNB, Canada, and London. Some of them are also white.

Using an aircraft like this will not be practical in a city like London, or NBO.

To stop the pirating, then need to imprison all of the pirates who control the operation, and shut off the money flow into Somalia.

A good start would be to internationally recognize Somaliland, and use it as a base to pacify Somalia, while they imprison all of the pirate heads that are making most of the money.

cliff
KGRB

This should work too.
http://xe9.xanga.com/68ff7b04c933027...m217224437.jpg

WW, that's a photo of Project Baker, the second Operation Crossroads Bikini Atoll test and which involved an underwater detonation.

Surprisingly the Prinz Eugen, which being used as a weapons effect test item, survived the explosion despite being only 2000 yards from the wepaon. This was the second test wich the Prinz Eugen had survived, the first being Project Able, a low-level atmospheric test at Bikini Atoll, the ship being only 1200 yards from ground zero..... She later sank under tow on the way to Kwajalein a year later.

So would blowing pirate boats away with bombs even work?

And for all those who were once 'involved in certain activities' and might have wondered what SUPA stood for, it was 'SUpport for Project Able'!

No doubt an air burst would work better. I just like the picture of boats and a bloody big bomb.

UK:
The Piracy Act 1837 (7 Will 4 & 1 Vict c 88) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It abolished the death penalty for most offences of piracy, but created a new offence often known as piracy with violence, which was punishable with death. This offence still exists in the United Kingdom and in the Republic of Ireland, but is no longer punishable by death in either country. Piracy Act 1837 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US: In the United States, criminal prosecution of piracy is authorized in the U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 8 cl. 10:
The Congress shall have Power ... To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
Title 18 U.S.C. § 1651 states:
Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life.

It's not justice in either country, apparently.

Have the UK actually taken any pirates back to the UK for prosecution
or have they handed them over to other countries ?

I believe the US have taken a few back, I can remember at least one.

Can't we let he Russian's deal with them. Reputedly a choice between a short trip on a boat or a long trip to gulag, no questions asked.

Pirates, only way to treat them is on the end of a yardarm, but must miss all that delicate electronic equipment.

Regards

Air pig

What about keelhauling them ?:O

It's known as justice IF the pirate has been tried in court prior to execution, otherwise it's generally referred to as 'state sanctioned murder' to execute without trial.

Just being picky, like, but you must trust politicians a damn sight more than I do if you are willing to let them sanction execution without trial.

Question for those who know the law.

The US sent in SEALS to shoot the 3 prates holding a US Citizen hostage.
Now the US would tell anyone who questioned it to nick off and MYOB
but where does this fall legally considering it was in international waters.

Justified on the basis of terrorism because they were holding a hostage ?

What about if they stormed a ship being held by pirates and the crew
were being held hostage but were locked in the safe room ?

PTT:

I'm glad that's cleared up then... Just two countries in the world... It should fix all the visa/passport and currency issues.. :rolleyes:

Davejb:

Justice has absolutely nothing to do with courts of law.

As to politicians... You'll notice they appear on my list... :ok:

If we tried pirates in the UK they would claim asylum when they came out of prison, send them to the US, know how to sentence people, fifty years in a supermax. The Russians have set them free into a boat that suddenly blew up, must have been poor fuel or poor seamanship obviously. :E

Regards

Air pig

Sorry Chum.....it is justice if they are shot out of hand upon being apprehended. Otherwise it is a Criminal Justice Proceeding if it involves a Court. Law is administered in Court....not Justice....that is done on the spot.

Thread last year about Russians and pirates in military aircrew. Sort can't link.

Regards

Air pig

I would release all captured Pirates, some little village in the middle of land locked Afghanistan would seem an ideal place.

As it happens, I believe we actually ARE doing something about pirates - see here.

However, to suggest that a broad based UK Maritime Patrol capability is better served by a CN-235 is slightly naive. The whole point of a maritime capability is to cover a whole range of scenarios - anti-piracy or as it might be called 'Tapestry/ASUW' may be flavour of the month right now, but what do you use next week when the Iranians send some subs out to cause trouble somewhere else?

But hey! Different budget, who cares? Lets get back to Aircrew Rations.

The captain's name is FLTLT Blunt?
:D

The Royal Navy is deploying the Maritime patrol fleet have seen footage of Merlin and Lynx on patrol of somalia.

The best way to combat pirates is to deny them access to their chosen prey, i.e. fend them off with the necessary deployment of ordnance.

Their is no need to re-invent the wheel - there is a century-old method known to all and sundry in dealing with piracy, it just needs to be employed properly and without the involvement of tax-payer funded human rights lawyers.

The situation off the Somali coast is a straightforward case of deploying maritime force, but only when vessels are involved that fly the flag of the countries providing naval protection. We certainly do not need to protect any ships flying flags of convenience.

thunderbird 7,

Possibly naive, but certainly more affordable than your alternative....which proved so expensive that it no longer exists, and might possibly never do so again!

Also a reasonable capability in a variety of roles:


CN-235 Persuader





About those rations..... the rot set in many years ago when DCS disappeared!

Rosco 22,

I do hope that it wasn't just the BBC that got his name wrong, it would be nice if someone on the crew has stitched him up.

Can't wait for old 'Blunty' to return safe and sound so we can present him with his new name patch, coffee mug etc etc.

Priceless!