That Dam Film Again
 

Idly flicking through the Freesat channels on Saturday and up pops the Dam Busters (again). It was immensely pleasing to see the film totally unexpurgated, to the extent that the inexorable lead up to the dog's demise had four or five instances of its real name being used. first by Gibson, then a Flt Sgt, then a mess corporal, another airman, the guardroom NCO - all shooing "Ni***r" (see, I'm too scared of the PC police to write what was spoken on public broadcast TV) on his way to being run over by the heartless bastard who didn't even bother to stop.

There were some great examples of displacement activity by the aircrew in the hours leading up to the launch for the raid; I think we've all done that in various ways in recent conflicts - not a lot changes in the human psyche over the years.

And the low flying sequences (although repeated a few times to give the impression of multi formations) were still impressive, given the era in which the film was made.

I'd watch it again...

Mister B

I saw it too and couldn't resist, Mr B. As we missed the start, Mrs C wants to get it on DVD! Life doesn't get any better than that!!

The low flying stuff was very well done and, although some of the special effects look a bit out of place today there were some toe-curling flying sequences.

Great film and a great tribute to Wallis and the Sqn.

Courtney

They actually announced before the film there was some racial words used in a historical context for accuracy........ simple and put the issue to bed.... Odd no one complains about Blazing saddles though isn't it.

The low flying, I read an article on the filming, they did the practice low shots in daylight flying at 60 FT as per the raid, but it looked awfully high on film so the director got them to reshoot it all at 30 FT!

Available on Blu-Ray too.

Just wish they would get on with the new version of it that is on hold.

The replicas for the film look good

Takeoff looms for Dambusters | Stuff.co.nz

Just intrigued, why do you think that a new version is needed?

I remember as a young child going to our community hall to watch that film when it first came out.. Hero worship!!

Could it be that the audience of today lack the imagination that we had regarding enterrtainment? To me those 'special effects' were not special.. They were real.

My son laughs at the likes of original version of Quatermass whereas I can remember being terrified when it was first released. Now the audience demands to see bullet holes when people get shot!! :sad:

Interesting to be reminded in the film that they got the bomb shape wrong - it was really cylindrical and not semi-spherical.

Equally coincidental was an episode of Foyle's War featuring sabotage and espionage at a NPL outstation where there was the proper shape bomb on a rig.

PN

When did "Upkeep" come OFF the Secret List? When that film was made it would still have been possible to have dropped "Upkeep" from a Shackleton ; hence the altered shape. There was also the smaller variant "Highball".

PN
Most of the footage shown of the bomb being dropped was of the Naval version for anti shipping known as 'Highball' which was never used in anger. I don't believe any footage of the 'Upkeep' was used, or if it was it was the first drop scene where it was crudely inked out of every frame.

I have the dam busters on DVD and watched it only recently. Although I have mixed feelings on the real raid in terms of loss of civilian life v very little damage to the enemy* I am always amazed at how much damage the Lancasters created during the raid.....................As the aircraft are rarely actually carrying the special bombs on the way to the target in the film! The aircraft belly shape is correct, which makes it even more noticeable that the bombs are not in place!

*I cannot appreciate how folks in the UK saw this at the time, and was not alive during WW2, so like all wars/conflicts it is very hard to see the prevailing attitude of the period at a later date. In a similar vain I was walking through the local park today and noticed the low wall which was still missing its railings that were taken taken in WW2.
Morale aside, I couldn't help thinking that the gas for the cutting equipment lost in this operation was just so much more important than the IRON railings that were taken, only to end up as so much scrap metal.

Duckbutt, the film is being made by Peter Jackson of Lord of the Rings fame, he is an avid aviation buff, has a large collection of WW1 aircraft, the even produce range of WW 1 model kit, the rights to the film belong to Stephen Fry, another aviation buff.... Bar the changing of the mutts name to Digger so as not to offend I think they will do a damned good job of it....

As to the why remake a classic... Well the actual dams going in the film was a bit weak, but the rest just rang all the right bells.
But even though it added to the films atmosphere it was in black and white.... Kids today just do not do black and white and a full colour all singing and dancing big budget version will bring the story to life and bring forth a new generation interested in aviation, our past and respect for those that fought to protect this country......
The Lord of the Rings trilogy did some much to rekindle interest in everything J R Tolkien wise, perhaps the same will rub off from this film.

The Upkeep in the film was mounted on the Lancaster and was semi-spherical. I agree it was still classified when the film was made and presumably why they used the wrong shape deliberately.

I shudder to imagine a Shacklebomber with an Upkeep bouncing towards a Sverdlov.

Barnstormer, it may interest you that those wrought iron fences, and indeed the pots and pans were just a Propaganda exercise to make the population think they were helping the war effort.... In reality they were utterly useless for doing anything with, so All those historic fences were simply dumped, mainly in the channel!

Not a lot of people realise.

Scrap Metal - World War 2 Talk

I'm surprised non-ones tried to "colorize" the film
I can remember viewing the original version of King Kong on USA TV around 20 years ago - in colour. It had been computer "enhanced" and was surprisingly acceptable.. Maybe the film didn't appeal enough to USA audiences to make it worthwhile

Still remember the cut railings from my school and my Grand mother said a guy with a horse and cart used to come round collecting pots and pans.

Some time ago in Aeroplane magazine there was an article about
making the film. One of the RAF pilots who flew the Lancasters
said they actually flew them 'a bit' lower than the raiders!
Of coarse they did it in daylight, a filter turned it darker.
mmitch.

PN

You have no sense of adventure!!:eek:

mmitch

I assume that Pilot was Flt Lt Jerzey (Joe) Kmiecik

I'm sorry. I won't have that. The film is real and that's it! I saw Guy get into the aircraft and fly to the dam and bomb it. Please don't try to give me any of that "it was done with filters, clever angles", etc. That is how it was!!

Courtney Mil

Are you another, I think BEagle type, started off in some prop driven plane and ended up in FJ's 30 years later LOL:O

I've just retired at the grand old age of 44 in the RAF - but I have 50hrs+ on Lancasters. Work that out...:ok:

So the railings were a wheeze, eh? Can I take the Govt to Court for the beautiful ones that once adorned my house prior to 1939? The ones that Wickes sell are :yuk:

LJ

PS. now serving as a "backroom boy" with the occasional bit of service flying.

500N

Sorry, but I must defend CM, who, my log book says, I flew with once in 1980 (31 July). I watched the film also and its top gen. How dare you desecrate Nsssss grave. Its all true - I swear (often).

Looking at the link to Peter Jackson's mock up Lanc. Please tell me they're going to film in the UK with 2 ground runable Lancs and one of only two airworthy (there is also talk of the 2nd (total 3) getting an airworthy ticket - Just Jane). Also, the hill in the background of the mock up picture would mean that RAF Scampton has been subject to subsidence and slipped off the top of the Lincoln Edge!

I do hope that Peter Jackson is going to take the advice of those that have flown Lancasters. There are stacks of us (in comparative terms) around!

LJ

PS. What a fuss about nothing when it comes to the dog, see here what another famous director has done in recent times...

500N

I think that you should check your "Facts" before posting. You should also take account of the different Training Regimes pertaining to the RAF 40+ years ago compared to that of the Air Force of your Country.

BEagle started on single piston aircraft because he went to University - I started on single jets because I did not go to University. By the time Beagle joined the RAF proper I was training to be a QFI having served on 2 Squadrons.

This is the way the film-makers mindset works:

Calling a black man a nigger is OK as long as the man doing it is black. That way you can either explain it as "ironic" or clam that in a "blaxploitation" film it simply proves how badly black people have been treated by the whites over the years, to a point that they have been brainwahed to even insult their own.
Calling a dog nigger, equates a black man with a dog and so is totally unacceptable.

There was a an old kids film on which a dog was called Bender. Wonder if there would be a problem if they remade that now?

Nut Loose

Of no interest to me at all really, because I had just said the same thing in my post when I said:

"Morale aside, I couldn't help thinking that the gas for the cutting equipment lost in this operation was just so much more important than the IRON railings that were taken, only to end up as so much scrap metal"

I highlighted IRON just in case anyone had thought iron was a lightweight material suitable for aircraft production, or strong like steel used in armour:E

I was trying (and failing in your case) to point out that although the iron was taken just to boost morale, the man hours and gas used could have been much better utilised for war material production:ok:

Hey, 500N

There's nothing wrong with starting on fans and moving up to blo...jets:E

And Courtney is right, I too saw Guy do all that, so it must be real...right down to the neatly rolled up shirtsleeves (although I think his batman could have done a better ironing job given the significance of the mission).

Beags old bean - fess up; is Caz right to say you went to uni? I thought you were a Cranners lad through and through.

I started my military flying career on single piston aircraft, not single jets; does that mean I too went to uni?

Mister B;)

In reply to an earlier posting - there have been several articles on the filming of the Dams Raid. At the time it was said that the Bomb was in fact still on the Secret list so its size and shape had to be modified, this had the effect of making the films "Bomb" far more visable to the camera. There were only 3 airworthy Lancs available at the time hence why a lot of the formation shots are of 3. Most of the RAF base ground filming was carried at at RAF Hemswell just up the road from Scampton including the final scene where 'Gibson' walks away. Richard Todd who played Gibson learnt enough when doing the filming to taxi a Lanc around although I believe he came a cropper years later when trying to re-inact this fact with what is now Just Jane.
The original is a brilliant film and I fear the film worlds over use of things like CGI in a new version will never look as good as a real Lanc thundering over the countryside!

Guy Gibson's Dog
 

As I understand it, the name of Gibson's original Dog was `Nigger` & the name was used a number of times in the film, one of them being one of the code words for the successfull attack on one of the Dams.
If this upsets the odd person to day, that most definitely is not & would not be my intention, I'm mearly just stating the situation & facts as they were in the 1940s. I'm sorry folks, you can't change history.

I was having a dig at Courtney, hence the :O, don't take it to heart,
it was payback directed at him:ok:

I'm sure he got it.


I like the posts from the earlier flyers who flew the WWII vintage aircraft
and then went on to more modern one's.
.

Yeah, I deserve it all, 500N. If all else fails, just have a go at Courtney. :ok: I know. But, as it happens, you did flush out somehting very interesting, to me anyway.

VX489, Medium Level PIs, 1:50. Hello, CP!

Sorry, we're not supposed to be boring old gits here. I'll get back to the thread in a moment...

No problem 500 proper banter, that is. anyway, Courtney has a history of starting on fans...or is that stopping them...with his head.

By the way CM, on that Akrotiri det that I vaguely mis-remembered, did you have a large, loud Canadian pilot who wore a chicken on his head (I know this sounds surreal to anyone who was not at that happy hour, fuelled by brandy sour and Keo/Carlsberg)?

Mister B (more like mists of time...)

Mr B.

500N's is indeed the real thing. I hope people don't somestimes misunderstand him. Nothing as priceless as proper banter!

Still have the fan scars - will find suitable picture soonest - not pretty.

I did indeed own a big Canadian. We called him Don. Bit of a c0ck up on the getting on with the boss on exchange front, so left a bit early. Now living in BC and in good shape. You have a scary memory!!!!

Mmitch

According to the book, which I have completely re-read in the last 5 minutes, many of the practice sorties in daylight, some flown over the LadyBower reservoir, used filters in the pilots goggles to mimic moonlight conditions. Perhaps that's where the story originates.

Far more importantly, hello CM! I flew in XV399 that day. Is it possible we flew together in different aircraft - a world first or seriously scary. Best R. CP.

Mister B. The only loud Canadian that I knew, and he was the loudest of the loud, was the Sloop Don B. Many good times with him (delivering a jet to TLP, too much fuel, full re-heat with AB out, 5 deg nose down and 0.9M S&L -strange feeling)

Yes BSweeper. We were well into our fifties when we first flew the F4 together in 1980. I was just trying to recall from memory - maybe I should look at my log books in future! I think I remember you with your sextant in my Lancaster. :cool: But it may be the pills.

Hope all is well with you. Long time...

Anyway, back to the thread. My Dad flew Lancs, but not on that mission. He did tell me about using dark gogs to simulate night. He said they nearly killed him because everything just went dark. At least on a good night he had moonlight, cultural lighting, even starlight. With the death goggles on everything was just black and and dangerous. I guess he did't like them.

It's not often we say, "I'd rather actually be night flying"

Filming the Dam Busters
 

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this book:



BTW I found it cheap in a remaindered bookshop. Like finding a diamond among the dross.

Polecat2

Suggesting that changing the dog's name is redundant because black people often say it to each other is incredibly stupid. Similarly, choosing what has always been a controversial film like Pulp Fiction as a basis for comparison is equally ignorant.

Surely you have a grasp of context? I could (not that I do) go up to my best mate and call him any name under the sun straight to his face - without any consequence. Do you think I'd get the same reaction from him as I would a stranger in town on a Saturday night?

When my housemate (who's gay) came back with his boyfriend the other evening and asked him 'want a cup of tea faggot?' do you reckon that means I can address him in the same way?

Proplover, the last seen with Gibson walking away was most def not filmed at Hemswell it was done at Scampton. Go on the Scampton museum tour and the first thing you will be shown after the main gate is exactly where that scene took place.

The take off shots were filmed at Hemswell, with the tails in the hedge at the start of the run apparently!!!

It appears that the actor who played Sqn Ldr Maudslay's character subsequently spent many a year pouring pints at the Woolpack in Emmerdale. I knew I recognised the face:

Richard Thorp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Leon Jabachjabicz: You mention the hill in the background of the mock up picture.
I hope you don't think Jackson would make such a basic mistake as to try and pass that off as Scampton.

The photo was taken at the small rural airfield of Masterton, which happened to be a convenient place to assemble the first mockup.