Why bother with a new one, keep the original with reworked dam breaching effects, job done.

I always thought Black Buck 1 would have made a good film.

I enjoyed the tour a few years ago, is it still available? Also Bucc lurking in the background at Scampton, which was a surprise.

When we did our JP night flying, it was 1974 and the nation was still facing frequent blackouts due to the legacy of the 'Three Day Week'. Everything would be turned off except the aerodrome lights on some nights - even the Cheerio Cafe had to shut. The solo navex across East Anglia was very interesting - just a few aerodrome pundits and the lights of the aircraft ahead. Probably as close to wartime black out as anyone could ever experience!


(500N / HTB, in the days when I first joined, future RAF pilots could apply for an RAF Scholarship before going to RAFC Cranwell. I did, so I had about 40 hrs on puddlejumpers before arriving at Bull$hit Towers in Sep 68. Then, on about Day 2, we were told that a new scheme had just come in and that we could apply to go to University. Several folk did so immediately; the rest of us did a year of joy in the SBL / JM blocks with lots of marching around in horsehair blue before going to University. The UAS was such fun that I had to repeat a year of my course (although there were also personal reasons) and I didn't graduate until 1973... Then Officer Training and JPs at RAFC Cranwell before flying my first fast jet, the Gnat, in 1975.)

I did the old flying scholarship too. Lots of wonderful flying from Cambridge airport with Marshalls in Cessna 150s. I had a Private Pilot's Licence before I had a driving licence - even a provisional one!

... good Lord, another illusion shattered! BEags as an undergrad in the 60s (just).

Difficult to imagine him with long hair (any hair really :ok:), a flowery shirt and what one believes is termed a "spliff".

What next? That he's really just another grammar school oik? ;) Surely no more revelations.....

No flowery shirt, though I regret that one did have flared jeans.....and polo neck shirts :eek:.

Hair never recovered from the efforts of 'Slasher' at Cranwell!

I have never smoked anything ever:=. Only food, drink and parts of the female anatomy have been on my lips! :E

I still had my 'L' plates when my PPL arrived in the post - don't expect to pass your driving test if the only instruction you've had is from your Dad in the family second car - a somewhat elderly 100E.

I did indeed take my test with that level of instruction. I failed.

Hey, my old jeans are back in fashion now. Flares, true style is timeless!

Nothing wrong with being just another grammar school oik.

Digitally remastered Dam Busters DVD is ordered!

Yup, the early 1970s style of girls wearing flimsy cheesecloth hippy blouses and flared hipster jeans had a lot going for it! Ooooh yes!

When I arrived at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome, one of my VC10 course colleagues received an invite to a private social do at a Wg Cdr's home (which might or might not have have been 'Pnomh Penh Len'...), who'd written 'lounge suits' on the invite! "Great", said the invitee, "I've got just the thing. A hideous, 1970s purple crushed velvet suit with huge lapels, flared jacket and massively flared trousers!". He went in this get-up; the Wg Cdr's frostiness was only exceeded by his wife's!

When your DVD arrives, Courtney, look for the 'Ghost of Nigger'. In the scene where 'Barnes Wallis' is talking to 'Guy Gibson' at the end of the film, you can clearly see a black dog running about in the background even though there were reputedly no black labradors at Scampton at the time.....:confused:

And I might as well chuck in my "filming of original Dambusters" story - apologies to those who have seen it when I've posted it before.

Many problems at Scampton and Hemswell with lots of "luvvy" erks and officers wandering around, failing to give or return proper salutes. Cue 2 x confused and apoplectic SWOs. Solution: luvvies to wear brown shoes/boots to distinguish them from "real" personnel. All looks the same in B&W.

But ..... Richard Todd, having held the King's Commission, insists on wearing black footwear, and giving and returning compliments.

I so hope it's true.....

Blooming heck - who mentioned "100E"? My first car - cost me £48, traded it in for a 105E Anglia for £50! Don't remeber cheese cloth tops at LTC though! More like cardies and wincyette (with the odd notable exception!)!

Channel 4 are doing just that - transmission to coincide with the 30th anniversary this Spring;)

To be fair, it will be more a dramatised reconstruction with 'talking heads' than a feature film.

Sorry for the thread drift....

Ahh a toe sucker..... :E


I agree the Black Buck would make a good film.

An excellent film (BTW nothing wrong with a 100E. One took me to work when trying to sort out XP831. It was a fraction better with an ali head, twin SUs, an A-frame and Konis at the back and decent roll bar on the friont plus an extra gearbox giving 6 forward gears and 2 reverse. Mind you the brakes and the wipers still did not work). Like I said an excellent film.

What have I started? Won't the film have to be named "Ethnically Diverse Buck of African or Asian Origin"?

Courtney

Another memory leaked into my synapse - as a consequence of the loud Canuk with the chicken on his head taking umbrage to a cocky and pompous Tornado (GR1) nav caling him a "cock-head" (or similar) and generaly being abusive to the whole sqn, said nav was pinned out in the garden using convenient croquet hoops; his buddies seemed to think that was just desserts, so left him there for quite a while. I think it was a UK-based Tornado sqn, certainly not from LBH:ok:

Mister B

Yeah, Mr B. He was a colourful character. Of course, the bar at Akrotiri was no place to upset people unless you wanted swift and severe retribution. I recall OC 43 (HD) being badgered by a nav one evening in the bar. He turned to a large sqn pilot and barked in his characteristic cockney, "Walta, take 'im out!". Pilot takes nav outside, boys hear duffing up noises and pilot returns to his beer. Nav re-appears looking worse for wear and verbally attacks boss again about the damage to his £150 italian leather shoes. Bored boss barks, "Walta, when I say take 'im out, I mean 'ospital job!"

A good job nothing like that happened in that wonderful film about the dambusters.

COCL2

IIRC the film was withdrawn from the USA because the American distributors added footage of B 17's taking part in the Raid. Caused quite a stir in the British Press!!

Richard Todd walked out of the Premiere!!

Our UAS girls did something similar to one of the UAS male students who they'd caught doing a Peeping Tom on their accommodation at one summer camp. After completing croquet hoop crucifixion, a garden hose was inserted up his trouser leg, followed by several bowls full of dirty washing up water via a funnel attached to the other end.

We QFIs merely looked the other way....

JF, I did like the idea of the heroic P1127 test pilot driving to work in a 100E! Even brand new, it was blessed with a mere 36bhp (the 100E, that is!) and I can't believe that the ally head and twin SUs reduced the 0-60 in 29.4s time by very much. How ever did the extra gearbox thing work? You're right about those wipers though - a penumatic tank driven by inlet manifold pressure powered the things. I use the word 'powered' rather generously. As you put your foot down in an attempt to pass something (bicycle, horse, pedestrian or perhaps a pre-war Austin 7), despite optimistic pneumatic hissing from the engine bay, they would slow down completely until almost stopped - just what you need when trying to overtake in pouring rain. Lift off again and they would thrash themselves in a mad frenzy - we often had to recover the passenger side wiper from over the Somerset hedges! As for 'brakes'.....they really were pretty awful.

Yes, Black Buck should be a good docudrama whern Ch4 release it. Much of the filming was done using XM655 at Wellesbourne Mountford as it is far more representative of XM607 than any other surviving Vulcan able to be powered up.

BEages

The answer to that has gone as a PM (aren't I a good boy)

I commend to you all "Dambusters" by Max Arthur, forword by Stephen Fry. Totally awesome account of this historic feat of arms.

As good as the original is, a remake is way overdue. This was a "larger than life" act (60 feet in a lanc, at night, or in daytime with the windows covered in blue cling film...**** that!!) that needs to be seen again with all the technology the film industry now has. The main players behind the film seem to have the right attitude to history and therefore the "truth" seems to be in good hands.

I don't know the scope of the new film, but one thing that is totally missing from the original is the view from the ground...both horrendous (many of the casualties were Ukranian women captives) and remarkable (read the book's chapter on the gun placements on the Mohne).

I hope the remake takes a broader view, is well directed, well cast and historically accurate. If so, it will be an epic.

Not read it but one Sgt Nav, 'Spike' Hughes who was later S Int O at Waddo in 1967 flew his first and only mission immediately following the dams raid. Int briefed them that it would be a cake-walk was all the searchlights and flak would be kaput because of the floods.

He got shot down. He said that Int had not realised all the searchlights were powered with portable generators.

Having been to the Mohne dam this summer, one of the most striking aspects of the real life versus the film is that the topography around the dam is surprisingly flat, rather than hilly as per Derwent Water.

I came back and quizzed my 91yr old 617 sqdn Lanc pilot, and he said it wouldn't matter as the crates were pretty difficult to handle at that height and speed anyway.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r-2005-055.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r-2005-060.jpg

You'll never get it to bounce from up there Wub :ok:

GDT
 

I went with good number of my initial officer training course (No 210)to watch the film in Cirencester's flea pit way back in 1965. Universal opinion at the de-brief in the Black Horse was a great film that did all concerned full justice. It was highly motivational stuff for young cadets who otherwise spent their days square bashing and knitting rafts together.

Really.

I must have missed the scene with the unteroffizer in charge of the gun crew walking out onto the parapet and popping off with his sidearm because that was all he had left.

Or the commandant of the women's concentration camp struggling through the flood to release the chained up females.

Seriously, there were a sh1tload of heroes that night. Some have not yet had their 15 minutes in the spotlight.

Read the book.

And don't forget this guy..

Given that Gibson was not exactly a likeable man, doesn't the fact that he thus named his dog give a character clue to the viewer? Lack of emotion/steely...

Perhaps the director of Dambusters "1" didn't make the point strongly enough. Nigger had been unacceptable for more than a hundred years prior. I made the connection in my early teens.

But in those days it was also a colour of paint that was jet black, similar to his mutt! Straight up, this was one of the other colours they did, see link below... Remember in those days the UK was not such a cosmopolitan population it is today and when the first black troops arrived from the USA they were treated as friends and equals, without any racial thoughts against them, as they should be, much to the chargrin of the white US troops who treated them poorly.


A Welsh View: 'Nigger Brown' Paint

Poor dog, if it knew the controversy he would spawn

Wingco Guy Gibson's dog was called "Nigger". It it a given
historical record whether the bloody tree hugging commie
PC brigade nutcases like it or not.

Yes, I know that. Just didn't want to be the first to say it, given the random and specious reasons that Mods apply to banning posters. As always, it is not the intent, or lack of it, to offend, but the perception of the recipient (or more likely a third party taking offence on behalf of others).

Mister B (as in "Bastard" - oops, am I alowed to say that?:O)

Interesting thread in a thread.

The last time I used the word was at Dunsfold in 1984 when I was briefing 4 chaps before demonstrating some flight test techniques to them in a Seminole. I was talking about spiral stability and said "the nigger in the woodpile is control circuit friction". The three white youths looked horrified and the black lad just grinned. I guess he realsed there was no racist intent on my part and that the common colloquial expression (at least when I was a lad) was just that.

In my view many adherents of PC fail to take the circumstances into account and as a result bring genuine PC (which I fully support) into disrepute. Shame really.

JF, the PC version used nowadays is "The non-reflective lurking in the lumber"!

BEages.

Oh dear. Some of us old dogs are not good at learning new tricks.

Oh fgs

When is it ever going to be possible to talk seriously about either the dams raid or the film of same without going on

and on

and on

and on

about that bloody dog's name. It's all been said on here before ad infinitum :ugh:

Shame that discussion about the film if poisened by harping on about that word, if the word is not used in a racist context it's just another word

I had a paint box back in my primary school days (before they called them primary) and it had two particular colours one black and one white but one, and I cannot recall which one was, let us say, Ivory Black or it could have been the white that had the contrary and unacceptable description.

Black and white are not actually colours PN, but I digress, there was an interview done by Steven Fry in last chance to see where he interviewed Mr J in a hangar and there was a full size Wellington replica in the background.

Let us not forget that Gibson took off on his first Operational Sortie at 18.15 on the 3rd September 1939 - returning at around Midnight. After his first Tour as a Bomber Pilot he became a Night Fighter Pilot (with "Kills" to his credit) before returning to Bomber Command.

None of us have had to do what he had to do over such a length of time!

Following on from the thread re Gibson dying when getting shot down attempting to catch out Lanc gunners, the last copy of Britain at War had a further letter to the one saying he died when bailing out saying he actually survived the bailing out but drowned when he landed.

In memory of a much loved dog that will be expunged from history because of the weakness and stupidity of the left.