Carrier Borne VC10 & Sentry anyone?
 

Article in the Sunday times notes a leaked email about the possible closure of Trapiani (apparently home to VC10 & Sentry) for RAF units taking part in ELLAMY, followed up with a quote from a 'defence source' noting that if we had carriers then this wouldnt be an issue as we wouldnt be dependent on host nation support.

Ignoring that the RN was very dependent on HNS during ELLAMY, could someone tell me when the RN Carrier capable VC10 & Sentry variants entered service again? Not quite sure that I remember seeing them flying from the decks of ARK ROYAL...

Had 'em for years, but so secret even the pilots flying them didn't know.

I believe WEBF has started a new job recently .... he might be working at the desk next to you!!!;)

It's not a rumour reference Trapani, it's unfortunately true....

Herc'll do just about anything. USMC uses the EC-130V (awacs)

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...S_sPI9kA0y_CxC

No need for a '10 or E-3.

If we had a carrier on station, it would have had its own AEW and not needed AAR and got the job done much cheaper. Despite all. the BS, light Blue have contributed less than 10% of the sorties. We need 4 carrier capable F35 sqns to be truly effective. Most can see facts.

As much as this is getting very boring I don't think many people would disagree. But you can't bring a capability to the party if it doesn't yet exist. And two tiny GR9 squadrons are not the same as 4 F35 squadrons! And to buy part of what you wish for both the RAF and RN have taken significant hits. Can we move on from the historical Harrier/Carrier/GR4 point scoring and look forward to the future capabilities that will shortly arrive (assuming all the funding isn't diverted to pay for FRES....;))

Of course, given that most of Libya is now in "friendly" hands (and assuming air support is still required) the question that should be asked is why aren't the RAF and AH deployed into Libya (or have I missed something)? Whilst the RAF Regt may be 'stretched' to provide FP I'm sure the Army would jump at the opportunity to get boots on the ground if recent media rumours are to be believed about the proposed future size of the Army post-Afg. I'm sure there are some old'n'bold still around who can point the young blades as to the airfields they should be going to. And hopefully then there will be no tanker support required!

"If we had a carrier on station, it would have had its own AEW"

Sentry does a lot more than just AEW.

" not needed AAR"

VC10 is about tanking other nations assets too, and not just our own. Its a very useful coalition capability.

"light Blue have contributed less than 10% of the sorties"

Its effect on the target and not statistics that matters. Overall sortie numbers compared to Kosovo are (IIRC) roughly the same, despite there being 30% less aircraft. But as 101% of statistics are made up, its not an issue is it :E

"We need 4 carrier capable F35 sqns to be truly effective"

Given the RN was struggling to fill 1 enhanced Sqn (and by all accounts I've heard spent nearly 25 years struggling to sustain the 2 front line / 1 training harrier squadron), I'm looking forward to seeing where these squadrons will come from. Have we adopted Imperial Cloning Vats yet?

Jim

I think the last point re 800/801/899 is stretching it a bit. Don't seem to recall there being a problem pre JFH and the QFI shenanigans. However, standing by to be corrected by those who were in the SHAR force.

"I think the last point re 800/801/899 is stretching it a bit. Don't seem to recall there being a problem pre JFH and the QFI shenanigans. However, standing by to be corrected by those who were in the SHAR force"

Very happy to be corrected as well - I am concious there were post JHF shenannigans, but I always had the impression from people I spoke to that the SHAR force struggled to keep sufficient pilots in the force. Again, very happy to be corrected, in which case I'll amend my posts.

If Trapani is to close, are there rumours as to where the NATO FOB will move?

Perhaps to the other NATO FOB that is well used to hosting E-3s.

Has good access to the beach too:

http://www.aewa.org/gallery2/main.ph...serialNumber=1

Corsica, Malta, Cyprus, its not difficult!

"Sentry does a lot more than just AEW"

And so does a bagger cab, and of course even the baggers can get more of their cabs airborne serviceable than the E3s.

Remind me of the E3 serviceability?

Irrespective of it's serviceability rates it's bringing more to the party that the RN Carrier/Harrier force combined :=

Some of you guys really do need to start to let go :ok:

Yet again a complete failure to acknowledge facts. SSNs and TLAMs for precision strike. CVS and Harriers for CAS and Apache for local. No other assets would be needed and the whole thing could have been done at a fraction of the price.

The RAFs comtribution was a very expensive Pantomime.

E-3 serviceability???

Tourist you are having a giraffe. With 2 ac away for months they have flown each and every day!

Can't get any better than that.

Muppet.:rolleyes:

But, in the absense of any Carrier/ Harrier it was all there was, is or going to be for quite some time. Blame the politicos but no dark blue whinging or crying is going to make a difference, nor can you blame the RAF.

What, like the fact that at the time the conflict in Libya started there were no

Getting very boring now.:ugh:

Never quite sure what grates most with folk who write in this petulant manner, the fact that the RN were powerless do to do **** all or the fact that the RAF did and still are doing so well :=

"The RAFs comtribution was a very expensive Pantomime."

Interesting - I was at the CAS airpower day last week (cracking day by the way fellas) and found that seeing the whole gambit of capabilities demonstrated, along with some very good explanations of the art of the possible and what was able to be done by the GR4 / Typhoon contribution extremely compelling.

I have a dark blue Commissioned background, and strongly feel that the RN did great work in Libya, and the actions of many of the ships companies were in the finest traditions of the Service. I am particularly thinking of the TLAM shooters, the MCMVs doing clearance operations and also HMS LIVERPOOL who repeatedly came under fire and responded. They should all be very proud of their efforts.

I am though getting increasingly embarrased at the footstamping, petulant toddler like tantrums of some elements of the naval supporters community, who seem to wilfully ignore the exceptionally capable airpower assets we still posess, and the wide range of ways in which it has helped in Libya. Having spoken with aircrew engaged in ops over Libya, and having seen the effects they delivered, I firmly believe that the GR4/Typhoon delivered a capability that the GR9 / SHAR could not have done.

Bluntly, to denigrate the efforts of some phenomenally brave people who risked their lives repeatedly over Libya, and also to view the work of those deployed away from home, placing ever greater strain on marriages and personal lives as a pantomine is, to me at least, very offensive and beyond my own view of acceptable inter service banter & rivalry. I truly hope Navaleye is not serving, as if he is, then in my own view at least, he is a disgrace to the Service.

Jimlad,

Outstanding response, doubt you will find a single currently serving soldier/sailor/airman who delights in what is currently happening around us but like you I am appalled by some of the stuff posted on here at the mo.

Well Jimlad,

I just happened to be on a US SSN on its final deployment before being retired and just sailed from Gib. It also had a an RN Navigating officer on board . No land based assset could complete the required tasking and said sub completeted the tasking in under one hour with TLAM.

Your arugment lack credibility because you were not there..

Lets do some deconstruction shall we?

"I just happened to be on a US SSN on its final deployment before being retired and just sailed from Gib."
Thats jolly nice, well done you.


"It also had a an RN Navigating officer on board ."
Thats jolly nice too, but I'm not quite sure of the relevance to your story, except to show that we seem to get on and play nicely with the US.

"No land based assset could complete the required tasking and said sub completeted the tasking in under one hour with TLAM"

So what you're essentially saying is you were on an SSN that happened to be tasked to fire a TLAM against a suitable target for TLAMs (a missle which is incredibly useful, but not the answer to every targeering problem). Thats delightful to know - next time I, or any other Pruner need to launch a TLAM strike, then I'll know who to PM to make use of your extensive contacts list.

"Your arugment lack credibility because you were not there.. "

Not where exactly? In the SSN alongside you and admiring your chiselled godlike adonis features as your peered through the periscope to admire hordes of SHARS flying overhead in a co-ordinated airstrike led by the glorious St Sharkey of Ward, while your finger was poised on the big red button marked 'only to be pushed by WEO - if WEO is not present, check his pit'?

Is there an emoticon for 'speechless' by any chance, or shall I just settle for :ugh:?

So using your logic between the US SSN, our own Sub fleet who we already know did a fantastic job and the outstanding contribution of all the land based Air Assets we are getting the job done :ok:

Just this Once

Well done, they got two airborne.

Two out of how many, remind me?

Two out of the two deployed.

That's what its all about isn't it, this military thing? Making assets count when it counts?

I'm perplexed as to what the issue is. The RAF said they could'nt do the job so some else did. seems easy to me

Surely it's a team thing :ok:

Jimlad1

"Not where exactly? In the SSN alongside you and admiring your chiselled godlike adonis features as your peered through the periscope to admire hordes of SHARS flying overhead in a co-ordinated airstrike led by the glorious St Sharkey of Ward, while your finger was poised on the big red button marked 'only to be pushed by WEO - if WEO is not present, check his pit'?"

Haven't had a laugh like that for ages, very good.

I now need a new keyboard and a fresh cup of coffee. :O

.

Navaleye,

So when exactly did you retire...?

...We've been doing some testing...
 

Buster

That testing was a long time ago, ANSETT went bust on approx 10/11/2001.

Obviously the testing doesn't always go well.
747 Aircraft Carrier Landing Flight Simulator - YouTube

.

Only just been declassified you see... :ooh:

Willard,

"Herc'll do just about anything. USMC uses the EC-130V (awacs)"

You mean the Semper Paratus crew :)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...W-USCG-1-S.jpg

Not sure why I typed USMC instead of USCG, but yes that's the frame I meant to refer to.

More info:

Federation of American Scientists :: Lockheed EC-130V Hercules

Biggus, given the current state of things, I'm not sure I will ever retire. I left the service in 94 but just happened to be in Gib and got know some of her officers who sneaked me aboard. it was USS Providence on her final trip. It confirmed my belief that subs are awful things and I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend 3 month on one. Mrs Navaleye unfortunately went suicide shopping because they would not let her on. At least I didn't take my best man with me.

Navaleye,

Thanks for that, the idea that the USN is already retiring LA class SSNs makes me feel really old - it doesn't seem that long ago that they were state of the art boats.

You were brave. Not for going on a submarine, but for leaving your wife to go shopping alone with just her/your credit cards for company....... :)

They've been retiring 688s for nigh on ten years now........

Biggus, I know what you mean. She was the 32nd Los Angeles class boat and is now 30 years old and her reactor is running out of puff. Her attack on Libya was against airforce targets. Particularly one airbase out of Tripoli and an arms.

I also got confirmation of what happened to the Kursk, but I'm keeping that to myself!