"Army to ditch 1800 vehicles in Afghan pull-out"
 

Surprised no-one has picked up on this yet.

British Army vehicles may be abandoned in Afghanistan | British Forces News

The actual article is in the Sunday Times, but subsciption only. Essentially what is being implied is that the UK is going to abandon £3Bn-worth of MRV, bought specifically for Herrick, when we leave, because we can't afford to bring them back. Assuming that it isn't anywhere near £3Bn as some of the vehicles will be in the UK and further noting that transfers to the ANA/ANP will account for some of these and be a good thing, that's still a lot of money.

Worse still, it appears to be predicated on airlift out (AN124 @ £400k a sortie for a max of 3 at a time). I appreciate that overland to Karachi may not be the ideal route, particularly in a withdrawal, but you'd think someone would at least look at the cost!

The BFBS talking head appears to suggest that the vehicles (UOR) are "owned" by the Treasury, rather than MoD. I appreciate the difference between UOR and "core", but you'd think they'd check all costs in the round.....

Nothing new here. I seem to remember hearing stories (I'm old) of perfectly serviceable Bedford trucks being driven over cliffs when the UK mil pulled out of Aden - or is that an urban myth?

I think it's common practice for the military to leave behind various bits of hardware, when they pull out of a Country. The USA has left countless hardware here and elsewhere. Common practice is to wreck, bury, or burn it.

No matter how much I loved it, I'm not sure I'd air freight my car back from an overseas tour if it had covered 100,000 miles. I suspect the military vehicles in question might be in the same boat - or not!

Agreed. But not perhaps when the kit has been bought at such expense and more importantly in such stringent times. Don't think we left anything like that on completion of TELIC, but stand to be corrected.

In TELIC you could drive a short distance to a friendly port and load anything you like onto a comparatively cheap cargo vessel.

Not quite the same case in HERRICK.

I'd drive a mastiff home for the adventure!
I'm sure if they offered the chance to drive them home, fuel cards supplied, they would get plenty of takers.

I would imagine that many of these vehicles would indeed be UOR's. As such, they would/should have had a limited Safety Case produced (much quicker to produce than a full Safety Case) that would have allowed quicker transfer in to theatre for use under specific conditions. Risk/severity/probability/tolerability etc all taken into account for its intended (and urgent) use.

However, as is often the case regarding UOR’s, if these vehicles were repatriated back home, not only would it entail the inevitable transport costs as outlined in the first post, but would also attract further expenditure in allowing safe and continued use at home. A full Safety Case including homologation/ legislative requirements, compliancy and of course, the eventual disposal costs would have to be compiled, which may affect the overall picture to the extent that it may be regarded safer and cheaper to leave said vehicles where they are.

Think of all the foreign agricultural pests and diseases tucked away in various inaccessable corners of a vehicle; until the British rain washes it out.

The Australians wouldn't even consider repatriating vehicles from overseas.

Sounds like a script for the Top Gear team.

Despite the inevitable Daily Mail-esque comments this is "normal business" for the MoD. As the majority of these vehicles were purchased "off the shelf" using CPF funding as UORs the MoD has only two options at the end of the campaign. Firstly, we could pay a large amount of money to move them back to the UK, provide a full Safety case (as mentoned above), pay for upgrades to make them compatible with non-Herrick kit and (the real killer) is that the MoD would be responsible for the full support costs for the vehicles from within its' budget - patently unaffordable unless the army give up capability elsewhere or receive an uplift in funds. Secondly, they leave them in Theatre and the FCO makes political capital out of "donating" them to the Afghan government - hmm, which is more likely?

There are aggravating factors; a lot of the UOR kit is made overseas - to keep it would cut UK manufacturers out of UK defence market for several years. Additionally, a lot of the Granby kit that did get brought back was disposed off very cheaply under the RAB restrictions, only to be very expensively (and publically) bought back a few years later...no politician wants those sort of headlines.

The Aust return equipment from other OS locations / deployments (ie Timor) but it is a huge undertaking by the Quarantine service and Customs BEFORE they leave the country.

Not sure what if anything has been returned from Afghanistan.
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Of course our size is a lot smaller.

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As the majority of these vehicles were purchased "off the shelf"..... and a lot of the UOR kit is made overseas......

it means the forces for once have kit that actually works and should be kept!

I wonder who's going to take ownership of the top-secret Aldershot-sized desert aerodrome when we all leg it away ?

James - i completely agree, the kit is awesome and rather than re-inventing the wheel we should look to adapt them best for future roles. Surely, as the drawdown begins (whenever that may be) there will be scope for getting them back slowly, a few at a time, now and every so often. Can't help but feel that if it's done correctly it will still be a cheaper option than procuring new kit.

Ah, i see the snag - when did the MoD last do anything correctly ?

The Aden stories were not a myth, I clearly remember seeing trucks being driven into the sea on the TV news.

I suppose that makes me old, as well..

Wouldn't it make sense to gift or sell the vehicles to the ANA? It's not exactly like they could do too much damage with them, but surely it would oil the wheels of this Anglo-Afghan relationship...

Or is it the case that equipping a 3rd world army with gear of that calibre is just not the done thing?

With regard to the Aden story, the same occurred in Vanuatu when the Brit/French administrators thought the Americans were going to leave all the kit there.
Americans wanted to sell it, colonial administrators wouldn't buy it, so the Americans left it - in the sea!
CABINET // Million Dollar Point
One of the pilots I flew with said it is a great dive site.

The gear isn't particularly offensive in nature, so not a particular drama. The points re long-term support and safety cases are also entirely valid, as is the case for donation to ANA/ANP.

Uum Qasr is of course a very different kettle of fish to Karachi, but I repeat, does everything have to enter/leave Herrick by air?

There was a time when there was a large collecting point in Cyprus for all MELF vehicles, many of which were then taken out into the Libyan desert to be used as hard targets for the Army live firing battle run, (mid sixties, pre Qaddafi). Maybe that training area and facility can be resurrected? RAF El Adem once more!;)

Report is B/S as 1800 vehicles costing £3 Billion means average cost is £1.67 million each................... MOD purchasing ain't that great but

Does that really matter, considering the ease at which a Toyota can be modified to carry anything on its back over there:).

well we did from Vietnam/Timor/Malaysia/PNG/Solomons

well we did from Vietnam/Timor/Malaysia/PNG/Solomons. An extensive decontamination process is used.

Give the stuff in A/Stan to the ANA to play with...

Left a lot of kit at Dunkirk if I recall correctly.... :p

As to who is going to take over the Aldershot sizeed secret base, there was some cynical remarks on that one on the Channel 4 new series Fighting on the front line on Sunday that covered the Chinook and Apache operations, in case you did not see it, it is here, thought it was put together rather well.


Fighting on the Frontline - 4oD - Channel 4

As for the US leaving stuff behind, didn't the US offer to sell all of the chattels in the quarters and the heated runway at Brize to UK PLC who declined thinking they would get them anyway.... so the US dropped a blade on the back of a caterpillar and went up and down the side of the runway and ripped out the heating element wiring....... also they dumped all the furniture and US fridges etc in a big pit crushed and buried them??

Historically it depends.

Where the country is a friendly country then the kit is parked up or handed over. In Egypt much of the 8th Army kit was parked up at Tel El Kebir. It was then in situ until such time as it was obsolete/fell to pieces/thieved by the indigenous population. Technically it was a forward holding war reserve.

In the mid-50s a Hastings aircraft was pranged and categoried Cat 5 and towed to the bone yard. Then came Nasser and it was decided we could not leave a state of the art transport aircraft behind. Rather than destroy what was left it was recovered and flown home. It was eventually converted in to a T5.

One hopes they were pushed, not driven...

First driving lesson for some of the locals. :}

Solo of course.

It won't be the first time a British army has left Afghanistan without its equipment

I'm with you Tourist..!:ok:

Could hold a fire sale on ebay, no reserve, local pick up.

The Reaper was (is) an UOR - will it be left there as well, as I cannot see it holding over the Salisbury Plains soon....

Safe to say it would cripple teh defence budget if all the UORs went into core. Still seems a waste, though.

My father, injured during the war, had a civilian job to make US Army vehicles that had been left in Auckland serviceable...so they could be driven on to barges, taken outside the 3 NM limit and pushed over the side. Though, he led me to beleive, not all of them made their way to the barges. We had some odd pieces of machinery in our workshop, including the seat armour from a Curtis P-40 Warhawk/Kittyhawk, which made an admirable arc welding table, as well as lots of Dodge truck spares.:{

As did the German Army, a few years later, at the Falaise Pocket!

Nutloose. You're correct about the Yanks burying all the white goods etc. at Brize. They didn't want any mony for them but apparently, Customs & Excise demanded import tax on the items, if they left them behind in the MQ's!

I believe they left the fuel system behind - full of fuel. Didn't it all leak out 40 years later?

jamesdevice

If you are thinking of the episode that I think you are - then the only survivor of the British Forces to reach safety was Surgeon Reynolds.

Marks out of 10?

OK - name of the Surgeon's horse then?

caz - marks out of 10.....zero. James Henry Reyolds was the surgeon at Rourke's Drift.

Wrong continent and war.....

I think you mean William Brydon! Actually he was not the only European survivor, and since his horse apparently dropped dead when reaching Jalalabad it was probably called "dinner"!

I was going to add 'Main Course'!