I'll talk, you fight - PM
 

Fresh from today's news conference:

BBC News - David Cameron criticises comments over Libya mission

Does he have a point?

How many times have you been given a task without full resources by someone higher up than you. Now imagine you complained to said higher auth or some one else in the c of c, my guess is you'd be told to stop whinging and get on with it. Dread to think what would happen if you then complained to the local/national rags.

ACM Bryant didn't complain to the "local/national rags", his comments were in response to questions asked by MPs and were apparently leaked from the House of Commons.

Or in other words, someone who is authorised asked, he responded and then the minutes were published.

I'd rather they spoke up and looked after the guys who they send to do the fighting. Anything that makes an elected PM of the day think long and hard about committing resources to combat is, in my mind, to be welcomed. And if this conflicts with Treasury led plans to reduce the nations defences - the first obligation of any government - to a point where it can barely defend itself, yes, dagnammit they should speak out.

And, if they speak out and no-one listens, I have a particular admiration for those who put their commissions where their mouths and their convictions are and walk, instead of just sitting back, keeping as low a profile as possible and collecting their pensions.

I'd also like to think that these recent two outbursts are a sign of the shape of things to come, that our leaders will not be afraid or too self serving to speak out in the interests of the services that they lead, but given the knife-fight-in-a-phone-box antics are still going on re PR11 and 12, the cynic in me says that some of this may still be for purposes less altruistic.

Remains to be seen I guess. Cameron is on shaky ground. "You fight, I talk" is a Blairite throwaway soundbite and not worthy of a PM. I'd be prepared to cut him an awful lot more slack if the SDSR that he took a very personal interest in wasnt such a complete and utter treasury led clusterf**k.

IMVVVVHO, natch. :\

Well AVM Bryant I for one have finally seen somebody stand up and say it how it really is, the PM was pre warned in May yet he bleats on.

Finally somebody with balls and character from the RAF to say it how it is :ok::D

Pity there is not many others that have the courage to put there career on the line.

ACM

At least he knows the detail.

Did he?

Did he actually have the guts to stand in front of a TV camera and voice this opinion? If so I must have missed it.

I get the impression he was asked a question by a person that was entitled to hear the truth... NOT A JOURNALIST

I am assuming that it was this person that allegedly has the 'balls and character' to put half their head above the parapet??

Hopefully I have just missed the footage where this courageous officer had the guts to publicly voice his warranted concerns??

My opinion of Cameron proceeds downhill ever faster. Whose fight is this anyway? Who was the 'world leader' who thrust himself forward to commit our people to yet another intervention in another country with little or no benefit to the UK interest? And who is the utter dick who has steadfastly refused to fund his wars. I expected it of Blair and Brown, they are traitorous slime, beneath contempt. One an 'on the make' snake oil salesman and the other a Fascist dictator with a hatred of humanity.

Is Cameron a statesman or a confused and unprincipled middle manager elected way beyond his competence? I think the latter.

Smedley Butler got it right. We should have paid attention.

It would be very useful if people actually read the Telegraph article.

The ACM prepared the briefing paper at the request of a Parliamentary committee. Therefore he was only doing his job, no more, no less. The fact that someone in the MOD, or Parliament, subsequently leaked the document, is hardly his fault.

I don't give a toss that Cameron is embarrassed by the contents of the brief. So he should be, because as already stated, the SDSR was a crock of sh*t. As usual the long suffering military are left to carry the can.

What I do find amazing is that during a time of high unemployment the RAF is unable to recruit enough candidates to fill serveral highly qualified trades. If he carries on like this, Cameron will have far greater success at detroying the RAF than Hitler ever did!

Funny how things change in 2 years, once you get into power......
 

Shadow Defence Secretary Dr Liam Fox said: 'The honesty and bravery of our fighting forces stands in stark contrast to the weasel words and dishonesty of their political masters.

'All of this results from a decade of neglect of our Armed Forces, and their families, by the Labour Government - because Gordon Brown, as Chancellor, was never willing to fully fund Tony Blair’s wars.'

Read more: 'Treasury-imposed cap' meant British Army could only afford to fight Taliban once a month | Mail Online



(Thanks to Brimstone52 in the Torygraph for this link)

Lord Farquar in Shrek said to his heroes,"Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm prepared to take.".

The PM might as well have said,"You do the dying, I'll do the talking.".

I'm a Tory of the Maggie era, but I now question my political beliefs when a Tory PM talks like that. Actually, I question the whole rotten House of Lizards when the likes of Frank Dobson et al are living in central London in 3 bed apartments for 400 quid a month when the market rate is four times that.

I question the MPs' free private health care for them and their families, their outrageous allowances for which they are afforded secretarial allowances to fill in the forms for them, as they are apparently above that. I question their pensions. I question their subsidized bars and restaurants and above all, their 'privileges' as 'Right Honourable Members'. There are a few good'uns. Frank Skinner, the 'Beast of Bolsover' is a man so far to the Left of my political leanings that he is next to Pluto. But he had the decency not to vote for a pay rise, and when all the other pigs did, didn't take it. That, to me, puts him head and shoulders above the rest of the political elite who do what the whips tell them to. Which brings me back to Cameron. Cromwell sacked all the crap politicians of the Rump parliament, because when it comes down to it, fighting well turns out to be more useful than talking well. We can fight well given limited resources. Cameron indicates his oratorical skill and political judgement when he dismisses the Armed Forces with such a glib, inept statement which comes across as: "I'm the suit, go and die, pleb.".

I really don't like what's happening to my country.

wot he said
 

This is what DC said

"At a press conference on Tuesday, Cameron showed his impatience with the remarks, saying: "There are moments where I wake up and read the newspapers and think, 'Look, tell you what, you do the fighting and I'll do the talking'

If that is true, that is rich coming from a man who has never seen combat. If our Government ask the military to lay down their lives for it's foreign policy (regardless of whether that policy is the right policy for UK), then the least it can do is ask the military to to do what is possible and with the very best resources.

David Cameron said: "There are moments when I wake up and read the newspapers and think: 'I tell you what, you do the dying and I'll do the talking'."

Message to CMD, 'you have two ears and one mouth, please use in that ratio'.
;)

so if Cameron wants to "do the talking", who is doing all the thinking for him?

A Certain well known WW2 RAF Squadron Commander declared his unit non-operational for lack of spares and got some PDQ! Problem is we don't have a budget to buy stuff and the delivery timescale for what we need in years not months. The ACM speaks the truth and Cameron is a non-military To:mad::mad: ser

Any guesses on his Nom de PPRuNe. Plenty of candidates regularly post on this board ....:E:E:E

So we have a PM of a so-called democracy that does not like others to talk - what happened to the free speech that our soldiers sailors and airmen fought so hard for?

Well done Simon Bryant - anybody think he didn't speak the truth?

Cameron has really shot himself in the foot on this one. His remarkably petty throw-away line is reminiscent of Brown at his worst. Time to start listening Dave: instead of signing more cheques to prop up failing 'western-looking' dictatorships and calling it 'Foreign Aid', spend the money where it is needed, defending the people who defend you, you @r$e.

At the risk of being uncouth, he also has one anus and appears to be utilising it in lieu of his mouth on this issue...

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to say. 'Its a deal'. Put Cameron as close to the front line as any servicemen get, so he can see what is really involved. If he gets killed, no problem, there are plenty of others waiting to fill his Westminster shoes.

But as Sir Simon's words were written for MPs, he is just answering our political masters' questions as he is supposed to do.

Unless of course the leak came from High Wycombe, rather than Westminster or Canary Wharf........:E

And if you don't like the answer, why ask the question in the first place. At this rate I might even consider, very slowly, joining a Trades Union.

No he doesn't have a point. For once, the politicians should shut up and actually listen to what their expert military advisors are telling them.

I would happily put money on the fact that he would be taking the very same points a lot more seriously if they came from his 'special advisors' or spin doctors rather than the heads of the military, such is the way of the Westminster Village.

Once again rather than getting shirty with the military, he should look closer to Parliament for the source of the leaks.

Will Someone Brief the PM?
 

Dare I say that the PM may need a briefing? Air Command, COMMANDs the air forces, provide forces at readiness and allocates the resources needed to do the job. Alternatively, read that as; provides advice on the commitments which need to be dropped or throttled back to meet the resources. Unless I was asleep during the HAWC, PJHQ is the operational HQ and are the ones who should direct/do the fighting.

It strikes me that, for once, Simon said exactly what needed to be said and it was well within his remit. The Air Force can do the job - but not for ever, on a declining budget and decreasing assets, unless something gives.

Politicians take note!!!

PM Dave Cameron, try doing a little thinking before you start talking! I expected this sort of crap from Gordon Brown; but, this so-called prime minister is proving himself to be no better!

He really needs to get a grip over reality. We have too few military resources left and if he wants us to do the fighting, he needs to fully provide the means and the money to carry them through.

So call me Dave, I suggest unless you feel like doing the fighting yourself, and believe me I'm quite up for a ruck with you myself over some of your stupid decisions and comments lately; man up and listen to the military for a change! :ugh:

Monty77
 

I think you'll find that FRANK Skinner is a 'beast of the Black Country' - the name you wanted is Dennis. The only Labour MP I've any time for - not that I support his opinions but at least he hasn't been silenced by the whips.

Brian

Thank you for your correction. You are quite right.

Monty

Although he has not intervened much in military matters Frank Field is an MP who has my respect. He says what he thinks, and is usually right, but doesn't care who he upsets.,

Angry is not the word!
 

I have just seen Cameron on TV. I now understand the sentiment expressed by previous posters. I'm incandescent with anger.

Couldn't wait for the government to change.

Still waiting, this man is an arrogant ****. Did you see his face when he used the phrase, he was really proud of that!

I'm waiting with bated breath to see how Mickey Mouse Dave gets out of this one....if indeed he thinks he has to!!
It's true, as Tories we wait for three parliaments to get the Government we want and then this spineless bunch of non entities show up:eek:
No, I don't think he has a point.

SPCK

Do they have them for retired navs? :E

PS Can't resist a crow...careful what you wish for was my message two years ago...and now you know why.

Monty77
It stopped being our country decades ago when we opened the migrant floodgates, we natives now have less rights and are second class to those that invaded.

As for the armed chiefs, its about time they stood shoulder to shoulder and told these public school boys prats publicly to ****off......but we alraedy know they dont have the balls todo that......career before country......they make me sick.

"Call me Dave''

He'd be lucky to get called a C**t.

Cameron got my vote on the grounds that Labour hadn't been fit to Govern for some years, and that he could surely do no worse and should be given the opportunity to improve matters. In spite of non-supportive counselling from friends and family, I took the view that he deserved two or three years in which to demonstrate my 'faith' in him. Subsequently, the ludicrous number of banana skins and about-turns have nurtured a probability to me of a man who is out of his depth, and until today my self-doubts over his ability to perform as a competent Prime Minister have festered.

This latest remark in response to his military leaders' well-held professional opinions in time of conflicts more than reinforces my concern. I now have now absolutely no respect for the person and his Government. He is a disgrace to his office, and should go soon before he leads us into a deeper abyss - regardless of who follows him, provided that Balls is not involved. Churchill would be aghast.

Strewth Jindy'

I bet 'Early Doors' in the Ram' was a hoot tonight!!!

I listened to that one wee remark with disbelief. I don't think the PM has twigged how pivotal those few words will be in driving the final nail into countless career coffins.

You do the talking Dave, many more will be doing the walking. Nice one.

So much for our military covenant! But then it's now written in black and white...so he can't possibly be in breach?!? Can he?

I believe Charles Moore has hit the nail on the head with the following article...

Lawyers should never come between a nation and its troops - Telegraph

Wasn't that the problem? They, our leaders, Military and Parliamentary, didn't appear to have any.
Sorry-I'm leaving.