Typical total over reaction by all parties involved..... Yes being unfit to fly through drink is not clever, and very bad form, but it will be delt with by the unit & it should have stayed in the unit. Anyone who can put thier hand on thier heart and say they have NEVER been shabby "the morning after" is either a liar or in denial.

Agree 100%.

Not on ops, but remember an occasion on tankers when a newish captain appeared for pre-flight planning obviously still under the influence from the previous night's heavy session. His older rear crew all suggested that he might have a heavy cold and be unfit to fly, but he refused to take the hint. They then all unanimously declared themselves medically unfit to fly, and when this unheard of state of affairs came to the notice of the boss, said captain received what he later decribed as the bollocking of his life. It was all kept in house, the guy learned a valuable lesson and later became a highly respected tanker captain.

I suppose these days with everyone watching their own backs this wouldn't happen, but I know which approach I prefer.

If the guys were on ops at any time the following day that really wasn't smart. I don't know of any commander in the Air Force who hasn't played a joker on occasion. Squadron cameraderie is important and I hope that aspect of Air Force life is never squeezed out. I, for one, wouldn't throw stones in my glass house.

There's something not quite kosher about this whole thing. Too late now I suppose to test their blood for anything additional to alcohol? I spent time in the RAF when getting legless wouldn't raise an eyebrow but I never ever saw anyone reach the stage of 'lying in a gutter'. Let me think, Bugis Street, Cyprus, Malta, Oakham, Bahrain, Gan etc etc. Nope; never.

Typhoon pilots the night before shooting ops? Very strange.

TOCU - early 1980's - not unknown for Tornado crews to shove some Brufen tablets down their necks and "walk" to the jet ten minutes earlier than required, in order to go on 100% oxygen before start-up to counter the effects of a large bar bill. They were not on ops, of course.

The greatest crime is disobeying the eleventh commandment. Do they not teach that at Sleaford Tech?

Geehovah:
I agree that this is the pivotal point and is the real reason the guys have taken a fair and justifiable amount of heat. Being an auth or the SOF carries quite a lot of responsibility even if you are not the chap actually flying the jet the very next day.

Read the article, which when you dig into it, is much ado about nothing - Hours before an operation? How many hours.

Sounds to me like they've been dealt with as a PR exercise for the locals more than anything else, as we dont know (but probably have a rough idea) what shennanagins have been going on from deployment day +1.

The super soaraway scum (our lads favourite) jumps in with hystrionics.

Sshh all you guys, or Red Line Entry will hear ---

I assume that this situation wasn't kept in-house because it could not be kept in house; otherwise, pretty poor drills to let these two guys hang and everyone else to suffer afterwards. They presumably started the evening with some other officers - if it was getting out of hand the Sqn 2IC should have had a word in their shells like and if it was getting really out of hand they should have been bundled into a cab (with an escort) and told to see the OC Sqn in the morning when they had sobered up. Short of rape or murder, if a situation can be dealt with within the chain of command, then it should be. The bottom line is this - were they good guys who ****** up or were they social hand grenades? If the former, then the quality of mercy is not strained, if the latter then I guess it's AGAI 67 time.

The Army is not blameless in this regard, far from it. A Inf Bn CO (who I knew many years ago as a Lt MG Pl Comd) and his Bn 2IC got similarly trashed on ex in Eastern Europe a couple of years ago, much to the embarrassment of the DA. Luckily, it didn't make the Sun, although there were plenty of witnesses i.e. an entire Inf Bn. Both officers were sacked.

err... umh... err

Just this once - Doh:=

Understandable sticking up for the boys here, but tbh for those of us who know the full story this one really isn't good.

You ARE joking aren't you?

If a bloke is trusted enough to strap the biggest boys toy in the world to his aerse and fly millions of pounds worth of kit around the sky and drop big bangs on people, I expect him to be able to wipe his own backside and keep it out of trouble. Anything else deserves a massive and long-lasting slap.

According to the widely respected Sun -

The Air Component Commander (ACC) in charge of operations was so furious he immediately slapped a two-week booze ban on the 700 RAF personnel — air and ground crew — at the airbase.
The dry zone was extended to all colleagues serving on Operation Ellemy, including those at an airstrip in Bari 100 miles away and at the RAF's Cyrpus HQ Akrotiri, where Nimrod and Sentinel spy planes are operating from.

Typical bit of heavyhanded, not thought through, over reaction. Deal with the guilty and let the innocent get on with their work and a bit of light drinking.

Scopie

If thats a wah, its brilliant!:ok:

There is a total disconnect between the original thread on pprune and what has emerged in that paper. There have been some correcting rumours appearing here too but far be it from me to point to them.

However with modern communications things are clearly different from yesteryear and almost the same year as the Currant Bun was first published:

A large crowd was forming in a main street in Penang and getting bigger by the minute as our now venerable piper was entertaining one and all to a virtuoso performance. Immediately around the piper were a group of inconspicuous persons, long sleeved white shirts, properly tied ties etc, and on the periphery the growing crowd of Malays and other locals.

Into the group came a bunch of RAAF and RAF Police to break up the mob, possibly knock a few heads and restore order.

"Hello, hello, hello" or words to that effect, "Who's are you lot?"

"Wg Cdr Tanner, and who are you?"

"Er . . . , sorry Sir, but can you move on a bit, you're blocking the road."

They had about as much chance of doing anything as stopping an ice cream melting.

Oh, and we were on Ops with our trusty steeds the other side of a Strait and ferrys that stopped running at midnight.

Of course an individual entrusted to fly any of HM's aircraft needs to be able to check his (or her) own six, but we fly in formation to look out for each other...not just because its fun. Same should apply on a night out.
So come on handleturning, tell us why we're mistaken to defend the guys.

Yes Handleturning, really curious now! 'Isn't good' for whom, the guys or the Service, or both?

um quite. Well the 2IC should have had a word, shouldn't he?!

So the 2 i/c is going to tell the now ex boss of 11 Sqn to stop drinking as he might get pi**ed? Maybe he should have spoken to himself whilst he was at it.

Good example set to the troops there.:ok:

Some of you miss the point that it was out of control the moment the Italian MP's picked them up, then it became an international incident - regardless of what their daytime jobs were. The fact that it was a couple of FJ mates just made it certain that someone would release the details to the press, and then it became the PR nightmare it is.

As mentioned before, very basic OPSEC would have ensured that someone remained sober or adult enough to get them back from whatever drinking den they were in, the fact that they didn't apparently consider this demonstrates they probably shouldn't have been out without a grown up in the first place.

/If you don't remember 'Sharkwatch' you shouldn't be out alone.

You watch someones six if there is a fight brewing, a car about to run them down or a change of plan. It should not require a coordinated team effort for a grown up to not put themselves in the poo and be fit to do their job. This goes for the UK so it is the same for anywhere else in the world - or is the fact they were on ops in a nice place some sort of excuse? I'm pretty sure they would have given someone a good listening to if they had done the same thing in Lincoln. There isn't an excuse.

I doubt very much they were found in the state The Sun talks about. HOWEVER drinking heavily within 24 hrs before flying surely must be seen as wrong and inexcusable by the Fast Jet world (similar to JHC rules no?).

Yes we all love a beer or two and YES its part in parcel with our culture. But there is a level of professionalism expected of every serving soldier/sailor/airman(woman)

In my mind it must of been briefed that (for once!) Typhoon was actually being deploy therefore the crews need to be whiter than white. Poor Squadron discipline if any of their crews thought it expectable to drink before flying.What was going through their minds as they ordered their 3rd/4th/5th round??!

Personally I think drinking on ops is wrong. The lads don't do it in PBs around Helmand (well ok not officially) why should people who get the benefit of living inside the wire be allowed? The guys and girls in the PBs handle live weapons solidly for 6 months hence no booze. Similar discipline should be imposed on us REMFs.

A very embarrassing situation for the whole det.

Not much of a team player are you Mr C :=

I bet his Dining-Out speech will be an occasion to savour.

Clearly they were seeking to meet politicians.

Sadly years ago early resignation for the good of the Service was the done thing. An Air Cdre at Bawtry jumped and I don't think the press even got a wiff of it.

A wg cdr at Coningsby a few years ago also did a weekend departure and no coffee or dining-out.

If only he was aircrew then he could be crewed with redlineentry. They'd be very safe!:E

err, i was trying to be a little more subtle and tongue in cheek. The press are still reporting '2 x Flt Lts'. no-one had yet mentioned the boss.:D

"The press are still reporting '2 x Flt Lts'. no-one had yet mentioned the boss.:D"

That will change now that you have posted it on here :O LOL


Which aviation forum were they quoting in the article ?

If it was the boss, why should he be protected whilst the blame is laid firmly at the feet of the junta?

Whilst it was being reported as "two Flt Lts" the damage to the military as a whole was limited. If it does turn out that one or both of the miscreants was of a higher rank it becomes more juicy and the press will circle more.

It's not a case of protecting the boss, it's a case of protecting the RAF as a whole.

Far more team orientated than you could ever imagine. However, I don't tolerate f***wits who can't hold their ale and seem to think that others should pick up the pieces for them.

Mr C,

Ive sat on both sides of the fence, including yours [specifically], and Ive seen idiots on both sides. Either you have led a very sheltered life, or you have a very short memory.
PM Me if you want to talk further, but please - no more moralising.

What they did was wrong, dead wrong. They arent the first and they wont be the last. But lets not all start overpopulating the high ground.

I think you'll find the Boss of XI is still the Boss of XI. Nice try though.

After reading:

Far more team orientated than you could ever imagine. However, I don't tolerate f***wits who can't hold their ale and seem to think that others should pick up the pieces for them.

While I accept that the poster may know both individuals personally and have knowledge of their academic status, as well as the EXACT reason they behaved they way they did (including emotional or stress issues), I still find some of the comments in this thread a little odd (bearing in mind we are talking of a business where our role is to kill other folks as part of our day job for some, and to polish chairs for others).

Coming from a green background, I was used to folks looking after each other's back as a matter of course....Not just on ops', where you may well be asking your mates to do something on an hourly basis which could result in them being blown to pieces or shot!

There seems to be a growing minority of folks in light blue who make it their business to have a 'can't do attitude'. This does give the RAF a bad name to other services, which IMHO is a shame, as the RAF still has many many top individuals serving in it.

I often wonder just how many PC 'heroes' would be so critical of their fellow service men/women, if they were stationed/posted to a forward base and could be told to do the next 'nasty' job as reward for their snideness to their COMRADES.

As per above, I may be wide of the mark here, but I can vouch that for my own part the taking of someones life (and ops in general) caused me more stress (and needed to be released in many ways) than writing things sat at a desk!

Sorry if that was a rant, but why do the light blue enjoy fighting each other so much?

OK I'm sure I'll get some for this but here goes !

You shouldn't really be flying a heavily armed high performance aircraft after a fu@king skinful.

Any reasonanable arguments ? :=

I'm ducking now.

No professional would disagree, and I would add any aircraft/car/horse or pushbike to that.
However these guys were not flying.
It would appear that the RAF( or maybe just this forum) have a significant minority of people more suited for work in Health and Safety than a fighting force. It's hard to have any empathy with them.